Ways to escape without fighting?

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Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  FASD on Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:17 pm

Im am trying to come up with exercises/activities (besides fighting) which lend themselves as something you may have to do to escape a violent situation. Things that with physical training, can be improved on.

So far I have

Fighting, swimming, running, par core, climbing and hiking

Any more suggestions?
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  Jagunco on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:37 pm

As I said in the other thread... Awareness and Avoidance....

I know the 5th ave pub is a dive therefore I don't go in

I can see the three shifty lads up ahead so observe them until I am out of danger and I am most definetly not to proud to cross the street of take a longer rout if i think that is a better option.

I see a man in a pub obviosly angry I don't limber myslelf up for a fight I go to a far away table or just go... either works. If I'm with five of my mate I don't try to act like the cavalry and march him out 'cos its a family pub' I let the manager talk to him to let him vent because something happened that afternoon and he's just angry at the world.

That last one actually happened and I was ashamed of myself cos I was actually sitting there getting ready to put a strangle on him if he kicked off. I was humbled when very sensible manager came out put a hand on his shoulder and just talked to him, then it was his turn to be ashmed...

Incidentally I think its spelt Parkor
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  Jagunco on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:38 pm

Btw do you realize that the thread is called 'ways to escape without fighting' and fighting is on your list? Very Happy
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  David Turton on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:57 pm

running should NOT be on the list unless your name is Usain Bolt

I am just shy of 65 years old and the only thing that runs well on me is my nose when I have a cold.. running is only any use if you KNOW you are faster and fitter than your pursuers.

Swimming .. WTF? why would you swim away from trouble unless you are Michael Phelps

the one thing that keeps coming across to me is a deliberate attempt to OVER Think, over state and to stir up controversy from you

making it complicated makes it harder not easier

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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  GOVINDA on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:38 pm

Probably "paper scissors stone" mate, much quicker and less painful than fighting Very Happy
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  FASD on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:37 pm

Jagunco wrote:Btw do you realize that the thread is called 'ways to escape without fighting' and fighting is on your list? Very Happy

yeah.. typo

Also, your probably right about the spelling of parkor, and Ive since learned that I actually mean Free-Running.

I still think running and swimming are valid, maybe just not for you, but if there's someone that wants to kill me, and my only avenue of escape is to swim, I would like to be the best I can be at it.

Incidently, I don't think this question is complicated or controversial.
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  David Turton on Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:50 am

its statements like 'running and swimming' are valid that concern me..

IF (and its a big IF) you feel you have devised a method NOT of martial Arts, but more 'self-defence' then your ethos and methods are taking away self-defence and self protection from about 65% of the population.

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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  Chris on Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:37 am

Specificity.

You become better at an action by doing more of that action. For good or bad, the more you do something the better you get at it.

There are a million video's, articles and sports science resources redily available online which will give you the information you are looking for.
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  FASD on Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:59 am

David Turton wrote:its statements like 'running and swimming' are valid that concern me..

I know I am probably opening up a can here but... why?

David Turton wrote:IF (and its a big IF) you feel you have devised a method NOT of martial Arts, but more 'self-defence' then your ethos and methods are taking away self-defence and self protection from about 65% of the population.

Yes your right. I've come to realize this.. Im just going to repost what I wrote in a different thread..

'The problem is that since FASD Fight Training is not a martial art, the place I thought it would fit was in self defense. Clearly it is not. What it actually is, is just a different method of fighting.''

Chris: The original question was about which 'exercises', not how to get better at them.. but thanks anyway.
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  Chris on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:15 am

No the original question was

"Ways to escape without fighting"

Think about it, if you are asking for ways to escape a physical fight then you are asking for physical responses. In which case why not include something like taking your car keys out of your pocket and driving away!

It's a largely meaningless question I am afraid.

Be more specific and clear in your objective for your questions and you'll get specific answers from people. Throwing generic activities like jogging, swimming etc in the mix is no real use. Might as well throw skipping and hopping in there as well. Squat your way to safety.
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  FASD on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:25 am

Ok, so the question is worded wrong.. but surely you get the idea.

Anyway, I can see this turning into a conversation that will probably just waste both of our time with no real learning result..

so lets just agree to disagree..
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  David Turton on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:38 am

again .. this is what concerns me about you

you make fairly long posts about a subject, then when we respond and make our posts you shut down

you state that you want to learn and improve from people on here, but you then dismiss our advice and say, "lets agree to disagree"

we are TRYING to answer your posts, and some pretty good people on here are doing so...

you have 'formulated' your own ethos and ideas/ideals, yet have (in my view and others) made some serious mistakes and comments

you state you do so to get our feedback, then dismiss it??

when you first came on I was impartial 50/50 as I am with ALL newbies

now I am 75/25 anti YOU... you are making statements that require both quantifying and qualifying by you, but you dont

that 75% statement was ridiculous .. who TOLD you you were 75% there.. anyone or yourself?.. and 75% of WHAT???

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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  Wayne Harrison on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:51 am

FASD, what the guys are saying i right bro. There's much better use of a system creators time and effort than placing things like swimming. This is like including a technique that is only optimal in a very narrow parameter, only worse! Is the person going to train swimming in clothes or out? Would they have time in an attack to take the clothes off? It' not easy to swim in clothes, and it depends a lot on the clothes worn. Lets say it is winter, one is wearing a heavy coat. This is standard for many months o the year. So the percentage of that situation is high. Then we look at the coldness of the water, the drag and restriction of the heavy clothing. So we got a swim concept that will only be applicable for a portion of the year.

Personally i would cover the most occurring specific events, using the most general applicable 'things', and build from there.

Can i also say that when one anyon asks for advice, often the answer will be different to what we my have liked. the difference of opinion is highly useful. So one can critically look at what is being asked. I sense you have been poorly treated on other forums, as i have. Here though, although replies may be different to what i felt, the replies have been respectful. I personally dropped my baggage i had from other forums. It's cool here, and folks are cool here also, Smile.

Warmest wishes

WAyne
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  David Turton on Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:15 am

very well said Wayne

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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  FASD on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:36 am

you make fairly long posts about a subject, then when we respond and make our posts you shut down

-- I don't mean to appear to shut down.. I do try to address comments but responding to everything is incredibly time consuming.. Like everyone, I do have other things to do.

you state that you want to learn and improve from people on here, but you then dismiss our advice and say, "lets agree to disagree"

-- I honestly feel the statement made was going off topic and keeping along that line of conversation would be a waste of time. I absolutely do not dismiss any advice (not immediately in any case)... everything I read/am told/observe etc (on any topic) I consider and make a decision of whether I think it is valid or not. Depending on the information this may take hours, days, weeks, months etc. So perhaps if I haven't shown acknowledgement of something it is because it is still under consideration... or maybe I have dismissed it.

we are TRYING to answer your posts, and some pretty good people on here are doing so...

-- I agree, some people are.

you have 'formulated' your own ethos and ideas/ideals, yet have (in my view and others) made some serious mistakes and comments

-- Just like how when I read other peoples perspectives I either agree and adjust my own thoughts, or disagree and dismiss their thoughts (i think this answer is becoming a pattern)

you state you do so to get our feedback, then dismiss it??

-- again, I dismiss what I dont agree with. The truth is there is alot I have taken on (from this forum and others), to the point where I have changed a pretty big point of view on the way I view my own method (which I have already posted on this forum)

when you first came on I was impartial 50/50 as I am with ALL newbies

now I am 75/25 anti YOU... you are making statements that require both quantifying and qualifying by you, but you dont

-- I am not concerned with how you (or anyone else) perceives me, as I am sure you are not concerned with how I perceive you. In the very short time I have been present on this forum I feel that I have made it clear that I am here for the sharing and learning of ideas (for that is what I thought a forum is for) and not to prove myself.

that 75% statement was ridiculous .. who TOLD you you were 75% there.. anyone or yourself?.. and 75% of WHAT???

-- I'm not 100% sure what this is in reference to, its not on this thread.. but Im going to go out on a limb and say whatever it is from that it was probably an educated estimation made by me based on information i got from somewhere... becasue belive it or not, I dont just make shit up out of the blue. Even my bad ideas have come from somewhere

----------------------------

FASD, what the guys are saying i right bro. There's much better use of a system creators time and effort than placing things like swimming. This is like including a technique that is only optimal in a very narrow parameter , only worse!

-- Something no-one has bothered to ask me is why I posted this question. The research is not for 'Fight Training'. It is for a separate area which I call Survival Fitness. I know that it may seem off topic to some but I believe...

"Self Defense encompasses all aspects of self preservation. The aim of actual Self Defense training should be that if you are ever in any type of danger, whatever it may be, you’ll have the best possible chance to survive."

Yes, this is another theory of mine which may cause 'controversy'

Is the person going to train swimming in clothes or out? Would they have time in an attack to take the clothes off? It' not easy to swim in clothes, and it depends a lot on the clothes worn. Lets say it is winter, one is wearing a heavy coat. This is standard for many months o the year. So the percentage of that situation is high. Then we look at the coldness of the water, the drag and restriction of the heavy clothing. So we got a swim concept that will only be applicable for a portion of the year.

-- This is all very solid information. I had not even considered past the first 3 sentences.

Personally i would cover the most occurring specific events, using the most general applicable 'things', and build from there.

Can i also say that when one anyon asks for advice, often the answer will be different to what we my have liked. the difference of opinion is highly useful. So one can critically look at what is being asked.

-- I agree. This is a way of thinking I do my best to embrace.

I sense you have been poorly treated on other forums, as i have. Here though, although replies may be different to what i felt, the replies have been respectful. I personally dropped my baggage i had from other forums. It's cool here, and folks are cool here also, .



----

Look guys. I dont mean to offend anyone and I know my train of thought may rub some people the wrong way. I have my opinions and theories and when people disagree with them it does not bother me. I would rather evaluate the information for myself and move on to the next subject.

I know you all have much knowledge and I truly do want to learn from it, but I am not one to just accept information without consideration.. no matter who it comes from.

I didnt want to answer these posts as long winded as I have, but I have done so out of respect for you guys. I did not want you to think I was just 'fobbing' your comments off, but i dont want to make it a habit. Discussing how I filter information etc is not a good use of time for any of us.

Bottom line for me is that if my way is offending you that much then I can leave the forum. I do not want to, but I understand you have an established community that you may feel I am disturbing to much. Alternatively you can choose to not read my posts.

Thanks
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  Socrates on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:54 am

As a totally impartial reader, I think the problem is the way you present yourself online. You seem to present yourself as an expert (your name is a plug for a website, you post your articles and blog posts as if they were gospel) and then back off as soon as anyone challenges you.

If you could jump in a time machine and sign up for this site again, I guarantee you would have got a much better reaction if you had written an introduction like this:

"Hi guys. Nice site! I've trained in a few martial arts over the years. I have a little group where I train with some friends. I am interested in self-defence and eager to learn from experts."
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  Wayne Harrison on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:12 am

FirstActionSelfDefensenet wrote:
Bottom line for me is that if my way is offending you that much then I can leave the forum. I do not want to, but I understand you have an established community that you may feel I am disturbing to much. Alternatively you can choose to not read my posts.

You're fine here mate. I'd suggest you decide to stay. There is much to learn here, and share. Honeslty, some of these guys have exceptional reputations. Your system will benefit greatly by you interacting here.

warmest of wishes

Wayne
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  Socrates on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:16 am

As Wayne says, stick around. Ask questions!
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  Chris on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:27 am

well that dull thudding sound is my head hitting the keyboard.

seriously, you can't arrive and throw some pretty contentious and sweeping comments out and then decide whether the invited responses are to your liking or not. They are what you are.

stay or go the choice is yours but I would suggest that you make a decision instead of throwing the comment out there with every post.

You are more than welcome to stay I am sure but you would do well to accept that if you promote yourself as an authority on a subject then you would be questioned as to your background and your ability in the area that you profess expertise. That's just a bit of common sense.

You seem to want everything presented to you and tied up with a bow on top. Even worse you seem to want to pick and choose what is "truth" and what is not. I'm sorry but facts are objective and while you should always question evidence to simply disregard objectively proven facts is foolish. Think for yourself but at least THINK.
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  FASD on Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:43 pm

Socrates wrote:I think the problem is the way you present yourself online. You seem to present yourself as an expert (your name is a plug for a website, you post your articles and blog posts as if they were gospel) and then back off as soon as anyone challenges you.

If you could jump in a time machine and sign up for this site again, I guarantee you would have got a much better reaction if you had written an introduction like this:

"Hi guys. Nice site! I've trained in a few martial arts over the years. I have a little group where I train with some friends. I am interested in self-defence and eager to learn from experts."

I agree with this. It was a massive mistake of mine and I definately shold have gone about it differently.. honestly I just didnt think about it. My intention was not to sound like an expert.. I do not consider myself one. I just posted articles. None of it was meant to be gospel, in fact i wanted (and encouraged) feedback.

I dont think I back off when people challenge me though. I accept critisism and change my point of views if I think another persons ideas are better. I dont count that as backing off, I count it as learning.

Thanks
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Re: Ways to escape without fighting?

Post  Dave on Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:25 am

Personally I like the running and free running options as something worth practising along with the hard skills. Surely both are encompassed in the Avoidance part of Self Defence?

If some huge lump of a bloke with a neck like a tree stump wants to rip my face off. One of the best things to do would be to get the hell away from him, as quickly as possible. Again this must also be a decent choice when dealing with groups of hostiles.

I agree that its not suitable for everyone as physical and health wise we are all at different stages and levels, but surely its an option that will suit some. Just as its probably not the best option for an untrained 9 stone individual to take on a 16 stone MMA fighter. Yes, I know I've gone from one extreme to the other but its purely to get a point across.

Going back to experts and who is and who is not. In this field of self defence I consider there to be very few or no experts. There are those who are very experienced, Dennis Martin, Geoff Thompson etc. There are also people who make a living out of teaching it, although that does not make them experts, no body has an answer to every situation that would apply to every individual taking into consideration their age, size, experience, strengths and weaknesses etc. (Before some smart alec starts quoting the Oxford English dictionary definition to me. Iam aware that EXPERT means very knowledgable, but I am talking about my opinion here.)

Everything that is written on Forums such as this, posted on Youtube, taught in seminars and written in books etc is all information and ideas for us to think about and practice and if it works for us as an individual, then great we have achieved another step in the right direction. If in two years we find (through the same learning process) something that we feel works better for us as an individual then we replace or alter what we previously used then again thats great.

Isnt evolution something that allow to progress. One of the best things about Self Defence is that there are no rules and regulations, this allows it to encompass so many ideas and techniques from which we can choose for us as individuals.
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