Gun Control

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Gun Control

Post  Ronin Mick on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:31 pm

Nick:

Not only have you been involved in violent situations in military and civilian roles, but you've also lived in countries where the possession of firearms is heavily-regulated and nearly-impossible for non-LEO folk.

I'd be interested in hearing from you and others close to the heart of danger about whether these laws actually make society safer.

I can't seem to comprehend how gun laws prevent criminals who disobey the law in the first place from committing crimes.

Also can you share any insight into the benefits of owning an assault weapon?

Just so you know this isn't a loaded question, I am a firearm owner myself.

Cheers,


Mick

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Re: Gun Control

Post  Nick Hughes on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:40 pm

Good question mate, and one that's obviously topical given the recent tragedy here. Give me a day or two to get back to you as I'm neck deep in alligators right now trying to get a new project launched and keeping the old ones operational as well.

Nick
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Re: Gun Control

Post  Nick Hughes on Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:43 pm

Ok...

Yes, I have lived in countries that have draconian gun laws and I currently live in the States where it's relatively easy to own a weapon.

This might sound odd to the uninitiated but I feel safest of all here. People who've never visited the States have all sorts of misconceptions based on the media to the point where I made a living accompanying European businessmen to the US for meetings who all believed they'd be mugged on every single street corner.

I've been here since 94 and haven't seen or been near anyone shooting at anybody in anger.

What happens, and someone who's got a background in psychology might be able to explain it, is that we focus a ton of attention on incidents involving guns ignoring the fact that obesity, car accidents, alcohol and even sunstroke kill way more people every year here than guns do. Yep, that's right, fucking sun stroke. (I wonder when they'll call for a ban on the sun? LOL)

Guns are, quite simply, not a problem.

Now, before everyone starts hurling statistics at me let me point out the real problems and let me begin that by giving you a quiz.

Q. Did we have guns in the US prior to 94?
Q. Did we have the proliferation of school and mall shootings where seeing recently prior to then?

The answer is yes to q1 and no to answer 2.

So, what's changed since 94? Several things but they involve the government and the media which is why you won't hear much about them but you will hear lots about the big bad gun industry.

To begin with the govt has absolutely slashed funding for mental health. The list is long of hospitals that have closed and turned their patients onto the streets. The recent shooting of the Congresswoman in Arizona was done by a guy who's own father tried hundreds of times to have committed but the State didn't have the money and he couldn't get any satisfaction from anyone.

The guys who shot columbine had mental issues, the kid in Arizona; mental issues. The guy who shot the cinema full of people in Colorado; mental problems. the Korean kid who shot up Virginia Tech; mental problems...the list is long and almost everyone of them had some mental problem that was either ignored or incorrectly treated.

Next is the glorification of gun violence and violence in general. When I watched movies in the sixties and seventies people got shot but you almost never saw any blood or gore. They'd simply fall over or fall off their horse. Now, even TV has graphic slo-mo images of bullets tearing through organs, and bodies disintegrating as buckets of blood and guts explode all over the screen.

We also give loads of publicity to these maniacs doing the shooting which encourages some other loser with no friends and no chance of being noticed to step up to the plate and have a go.

Next we have video games. People try and say they have no effect. If that's true why does the industry spend millions of dollars advertising their products on TV...if TV images have no effect then surely that's money wasted. Research the kid who shot the prayer group in school. On the day of the shooting he was pulling off head shots on running targets...a skill beyond most SWAT officers. He'd never fired a real gun prior to that day but he had played an alien video game in his basement for four hours a day for the last five years which gave bonus points for fast moving head shots. Hmmm (daddy bought it for him by the way because he didn't have any friends).

Add to that the fact some of these kids are playing these things for hours upon hours without any social interaction at all thus never learning the skill sets of communications, conflict resolution etc that normal kids at play have to sort out. Let a kid do that for hours a day for years at a time and then let him watch some nobody's name get paraded across TV screens night after night garnering all sorts of publicity and is it any wonder they flip and want to copycat?

Add to that mix an entitled bunch of spineless whining babies that believe the world owes them something and nothing they do wrong is there fault and you've got about all you'll need for massacres to occur.

Alright...assault rifles. A lot of debate going on about them and why does someone need one for self defense. While I don't believe for a minute our government is about to collapse and we're going to face all out anarchy etc. one only has to look back to Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans to witness a major US city in which the police had all but collapsed and didn't have the resources to cope. Rape, murder, looting, robbery and other crimes were the order of the day down there for about three weeks in which the people who owned their semi auto rifles were very glad they did so. The ones that didn't own weapons are amongst the lists of the dead. It's that simple.

Do gun laws protect their citizens. I'm assuming you're asking about gun laws as in Australia and the UK and not just laws pertaining to concealed carry and the duty to retreat v the castle doctrine etc correct? It was just reported that the UK is one of the most violent cities in the world (which would jibe with my experience while living there) and check out what happened in places like Russia and Germany when the civilian populace has its weapons taken away. Not pretty.

You're quite right by the way...gun laws do nothing to stop criminals from getting guns. All they do is insure that law abiding people won't have them, and I've never been concerned about law abiding people owning guns.

Look, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there isn't a problem here. While I agree with the American's argument that they have the right to bear arms I don't agree that it should be as easy as it is to get them. I have a right here to buy a house or a car but I still have to jump through hoops, have my credit checked, verify my job history and statements I make on the forms to lenders etc to execute that right. I think it should be the same with weapons along with a mandatory training session with standards to meet.

Right now you can buy a weapon and not even have to recite the four basic laws of gun safety let alone demonstrate any competency with the weapon in question. Fix that one and you'd eliminate almost every accidental shooting here in the States to begin with.

Let me finish answering your question(s) by saying this...99.9% of the weapons in this country will never be used in a crime but that's exactly the 99.9 the anti gun crowd want to take away from people...and they wonder why it bothers the pro gun crowd.

Nick
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Re: Gun Control

Post  roadkill on Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:58 am

Saw this on a FB post, thought it of value here. Shows what drugs shooters were on and case details.

http://ssristories.com/index.php?p=school
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Re: Gun Control

Post  rasdj on Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:07 am

What a reasoned argument from a "gun guy", maybe the Mayans were right.
Nick thanks for your thoughts. It's nice when the arguments don't start from either end of "take away all the guns" and "arm all the people".
Chicago recently lost a Supreme Court decision and had to lift their ban on handgun ownership; their[city of Chicago] response is more of what I would like to see and speaks to your thoughts that it should be harder to obtain a gun. Currently there are mandatory classes (signed by licensed instructor 1hour range 4hours classroom). Not unreasonable but part of the catch is that there are no ranges within city limits so you have to put in the time and effort to go get the training.
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Re: Gun Control

Post  DaveCollins on Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:51 am

You want to stop these school shootings then there's only one way...

A kid gets a gun and goes on a rampage - OK, bans guns...kids wants to go on rampage...no guns...he sets fire to the school - kills many more.
Kid wants to go postal- can't get a gun...so he plants a bomb or bombs....kills many more....or he crashes a car into a crowd of kids...

If someone goes nutty they will use whichever tool they can - a gun is just one of those tools.

The only way to stop a school killing is to control access to the school...then it doesn't matter which tool they choose, they can't deploy it...

YMMV....

Some muslim nutjob wants to commit mass murder - so he crashes a plane into a tower block...so Ban Planes!!! Oh, they didn't cry out for that one....they just control access to planes....

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Re: Gun Control

Post  Ronin Mick on Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:10 pm

Thanks for the detailed response from Nick and the rest of the crew.

The idea of a mandatory training course for firearms purchases is certainly worthwhile and deserves more exploration. Certainly background and mental health checks shouldn't be anymore lenient and knowing how to operate and maintain a firearm is essential.

Both Katrina and Sandy reinforced my philosophy from a Recon Marine buddy that it is better to have and not need rather than need and not have when it comes to firearms, staples, etc...

As a father of young children, I witness the amazing power of marketing and advertising on their impressionable minds. It is all too easy for outside influences from the media and entertainment industry to slip through the cracks. The games, the shows, the music, the news all play a huge role in formulating opinions and ideas but, as many of you stated, personal accountability and active parenting can counteract the influence.

The entitlement generation is going to have a hard road in the years ahead.

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Re: Gun Control

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