The other Wagner thread

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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Nick Hughes on Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:41 pm

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy cheers
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Nick Hughes on Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:49 pm

What proof would you like? Not that the onus is on me to provide it.

I can tell you first hand, from David Dye a cop with Costa Mesa for 34 years that Wagner was NOT on their SWAT team and only ever achieved the rank of green belt. Do you want me to have David write a letter to that effect? What will that achieve? You'll just say we're making it up.

Why don't you ring the Costa Mesa Police Chief and verify whether or not he was what he claimed? His military records are public record here in the States, why don't you contact them and see for yourself what he did? You're his representative after all...I think you'd want to be sure of who it is you're representing.

A year or so ago some useless cunt came on here claiming I hadn't served in the 2nd REP and hadn't jumped...only served as an MP there opening gates for the Legion Paras. I told him I'd provide my service record, my para brevet number, a letter from the French ministry of defense, and put him in touch with a bunch of ex Legionnaires who served with me, and jumped with me, if he'd publicly apologized.

Gutless turd quit the forum without an apology.

Point is I do have proof to back up my claims...Wagner doesn't. If he does, ask him for them, verify them independently and put them up. Of course you can't do that because Wagner can't do that.

Nick
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Chris on Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:36 am

if I had a gavel, I'd bang it! cheers
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  David Turton on Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:36 am

Nick you are great mate

Chris I would help you bang it

The sad thing is that this forum will not be seen by the guillable who will pay this guy hard cash to be conned...

I have mentioned it on the ASMAA-SDF website, but again it only has small numbers of followers

tail between legs comes to mind regarding Wagners Rep

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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Peter on Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:57 am

control-defence,

You started this thread here to sell us a course. If we have doubts about what you are selling then the onus is purely on you as the salesman to assuage the doubts which your intended customers i.e us, have.

Do you think if I went to buy a washing machine and I told the salesman I didn't want the machine he sold because I belieived they weren't reliable he would ask me to prove it? No he wouldn't would he, he would offer proof, if he had any that his machine was reliable.

Your situation is no different so I suggest that if you want to sell your product then you do just that.

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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Nick Hughes on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:05 am

I love analogies...that one is awesome. Very Happy

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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Jagunco on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:25 am

OK this time I defo think he's gone....


And kiddies on a biological note... turds don't have any guts, being mearly objects and not actually alive

Smile
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Peter on Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:13 pm

Nick Hughes wrote:I love analogies...that one is awesome. Very Happy

Nick

I know you do Nick so I did that one just for you. Laughing
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Peter on Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:14 pm

Jagunco wrote:OK this time I defo think he's gone....


And kiddies on a biological note... turds don't have any guts, being mearly objects and not actually alive

Smile

I'm not sure about that Jagunco, if you had seen what came out of my Labrador this morning affraid
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Chris on Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:49 am

for anyone who is on facebook. This thread seems to have ruffled some feathers.

Jim Wagners facebook
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Peter on Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:37 am

Chris, it says the content is unavailable?

Anyway, I don't see why anyone trying to sell something should have their feathers ruffled when presented with objections. If they had nothing to hide they would offer all the proof with a smile on their face and we would all then happily buy their product. That is the way it works.

So far all control-defence has done is make his product look as bad as its reputation.



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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Chris on Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:41 am

hmmm... I am currently on the thread talking to some sycophants. Fielding the usual "they're just jealous" nonsense.

Wagner has made a big show of contacting Nick's KM school. They're also demanding that we prove Wagner is not what he says he is.... typical logical fallacy at it's best.

I have made repeated invitations for any of his minions to post here but they don't seem to have the intestinal fortitude to back Wagner on anything other than his own facebook profile.
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Chris on Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:44 am

HERE WE GO AGAIN, JIM WAGNER IS A FRAUD.

I’ve been hearing that line since I started the civilian Reality-Based Personal Protection system on January 21, 2003. Nobody attacks the techniques or the training methods that I teach, because th...ey would be directly insulting the many police and military units worldwide who I’ve taught who swear by the system; not to mention the security companies, bodyguard schools, and martial arts schools of every system. Nope, the only way my competitors can try to persuade future students from not attending my courses is through character assassination. They go after me directly. In fact, just yesterday as I was teaching my KNIFE INSTRUCTOR course in my school in Solingen, Germany I told my students there to accept the fact that there will be a few people who come along attacking them because they are associated with me. Most know this already, for they have seen the trash but still come, but there are a few students unaware of the cyberattacks that have been going on since Hock Hochheim first launched them 8 years ago; no big secret there. I’m quite open about it. I tell all of my students that there are those devoted to destroying me, so that way nobody is surprised later on. To some they like it, because it makes them feel like “the bad boys of the martial arts.” One Dutch student last year came up to me and said, “Jim, I’ve heard a lot of shit about you. A lot. And, I said to myself, if there are that many attacks you must be good. That’s why I am here.” He wasn’t disappointed. He loved every minute.

Well, now that I will be teaching my Level 1 courses in Devon, England next month the attacks are afresh. This time it is from a character named “Nick Hughes” of the Krav Maga Lake Norman in North Carolina; a fellow American. Yes, I know, the “ugly American” again. I am embarrassed for any American that airs their dirty laundry on the Internet. It make our people look petty. Now, I’m not saying with 100% certainty that this is indeed the person spreading lies about me, because I have written to the school to make sure I have the right person and a copy of my letter to him, to the school, is down below for you to read yourself. So, what does England and this “Nick Hughes” have in common; they are after all on two different sides of the ocean. Well, this person, this Nick Hughes, is posting on a forum that students in England should not take my courses, and if they do they are basically, to paraphrase, “stupid.” Forget the fact that members of the Royal Marines, SAS, a dozen police departments, and instructors from dozens of schools have taken the courses and are more than happy with them and encourage their comrades to come, that does not matter to this American; or perhaps someone impersonating this American (hopefully I get to the bottom of it).

Well, Gary Dell, the RBPP Director for the United Kingdom, did an outstanding job of answering this accuser on Forumotion.com but the “intelligent response” from this man was basically you can’t believe anything that comes from Jim Wagner’s camp. So, no matter what document I have posted on my website, no matter what photos are shown, no matter what videos I have up on YouTube – they are all fake and prove nothing. End of story. So, Gary realized that this man was not really seeking the truth, but it was more of the same old thing. Of course, I told Gary, “They don’t go after the nobodies. They don’t want to see Reality-Based take off in the UK.” The funny thing is that I get a lot of people writing me from the UK stating that they are practicing my techniques and training methods directly from my books, DVDs, and YouTube channel jimwagnerrbpp I guess the enemies of Reality-Based have not figured how to stop those media outlets yet. I’ve been teaching full-time for almost 10 years now. If people come to my seminars great, if not, that’s fine also. However they get my life-saving information is fine with me.

One of my enemies a couple of years ago stated on his website, “My goal is to try to have Jim Wagner earn less money.” That, and persuade people to attend his Krav Maga courses. For some reason this guy thought I was an enemy of Krav Maga, which is a ludicrous idea, for I was invited to Israel twice by the Israelis to teach their top police and military instructors, and I learned a great deal from them as well. I respect military Krav Maga, which is almost identical to the U.S. Army Combatives program, and a fourth of all the students coming to my seminars seem to be Krav people. I’ve also studied Israeli HISARDUT, KAPAP, and LOTAR. No, I have nothing against the Israeli systems.

Here’s the letter I sent to the Krav Maga Lake Norman school by me just to find out if it came from them or another:

>>>>>

Hello from Germany. This is Jim Wagner. Is this Nick Hughes' school? I want to make sure I have the right person, because a "Rick Hughes" is writing on a martial arts forum stating that I am a fraud. I certainly do not want to be writing to the wrong person. However, the Rick Hughes writing stuff about me needs to be addressed and called a liar to his face (well, his cyber face anyway). This same Rich Hughes says I was never on the Costa Mesa SWAT team in California, and a bunch of other things he copied and pasted from Hock Hochheim's website that contains a whole book of accusations against me. This Rick Hughes who conversed with Gary Dell claims he has proof, and that he "knows somebody" who has inside knowledge. Well, unless it comes from my former Police Chief David Snowden or from my former SWAT Commander Ron Smith, and they airbrush all my photos out with my SWAT badge and SWAT patches, then I doubt seriously there is an "inside source."

Anyway, I have everything I need posted up on my official website about my background. I also have a few video clips of me training German GSG9, Brazilian SpecOps, Argentinean SpecOps, California Highway Patrol, U.S. Air Force Security Forces, and some other good clips of me training with U.S. Marines HRST and the U.S. Army 19th Special Forces. I'd like to put up more, but I am too busy teaching around the world and also serving my country as a Reserve soldier. Yet, I'd also like to ask the Rick Hughes that is so interested in calling me a liar about my background, which is verifiable, why he does not himself list which French Foreign Legion unit he was in on his website. He states he has trained VIPs, celebrities, rock stars, and executives. If so, then which ones? I state clearly who I've trained over the years (not everyone), but my extensive list is at least a list. Why am I being held to a different standard? Why must I list everything and not others? Well, I'll tell you why. Because I set the standard when I started writing for Black Belt magazine in 1999 and created the Reality-Based movement. I’m not afraid to list who I’ve trained (there are a few that I am not able to list until after some time has passed).
Well, enough. I'm just trying to find the man responsible for spreading the lies about me, and I hope you can help me find him. Thank you, and Be A Hard Target.”

http://www.control-defense.co.uk/

>>>>>

So, Facebook friends, what do you think? Do you think this was the right approach or should I have tried something different? Sometimes I feel “damned if I do, and damned if I don’t.” Some of the RBPP family tell me to address the attacks, and some say don’t; just ignore them. Well, on my official website there is no need to address our competitors. However, with Facebook I can get direct input from you.

Be A Hard Target.

The photo is of me and my RBPP Director of German Speaking Countries, Tobias, after a “hard day at the office” on Friday, September 7, 2012 in front of my school in Solingen, Germany. We had just run our students through sniper survival tactics in my original 8-hour Terrorism Survival course. Yes, yes, I know, my enemies claim I never went through the U.S. Marine Scout/Sniper training, nor learned sniping skills from GSG9, nor was ever a counterterrorist. Yet, the Swiss police and German soldiers in the course seemed to have thought the material was “life-saving” and very “informative.” The bottom line is that I give my students knowledge that they need to survive modern attacks, and the nay sayers are just a side show.See more
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Chris on Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:49 am

Avzal Tigerheart Jim Wagner has to be one of the best on the planet.. I have learned a ton of stuff studying your materials ( among a select few) and it has held me in good stead on more than one occasion.. Real world survival skills!! Thanks Jim.. Si vis pacem parabellum.. 2 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Aschero William Jim, your system is the best in Reality Based ! Don't care about them :)2 hours ago · LikeUnlike.

Liz Marsh Jim you don't have to answer to people like that, you're in a totally different league to this man. Jealousy is such an unbelievably ugly emotion and makes people do such stupid things. Having attended one of your courses I'd recommend them to anyone. I learnt so much as did everyone else there and the people who attended were from all different backgrounds, I didn't hear one negative comment about you, your teaching methods or the syllabus. In fact it was all positive and for one very good reason it's brilliant. Please don't waste any more time on this or any other person who wishes to put you down they're just making themselves look stupid. You're seen as the best for one very good reason, no justification required :)2 hours ago ·

LikeUnlike.Joseph Morris Jim Wagner is one of the best out there and also a very patriotic man. He sent me materials to work with while I was stationed in Afghanistan, and also has since become a good friend and someone I would suggest all train with if you get the chance. I do know that people will attack people just because of jealousy or whatever but if you can honestly go through a seminar with Jim and you dont get anything out of it you are probably kidding yourself. Keep your heads on a swivel2 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Lex Bijlsma In the Netherlands we say: high trees catch a lot of wind It means that if you stick out over everybody else you'll get more *&^%$%^&# . Still good to address it though. You don't have to put up with this. If they really think you're a fraud they should do the right thing and take you to court ;)2 hours ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson The discussion isn't difficult to find if you want to address the comments directly. Seems more than a little bizarre not to just head to the forum and engage personally. If you want the confrotation and to dispell lies then head to the source.2 hours ago · LikeUnlike.

Fabrizio Capucci Jim, the ITALY KNOW THE TRUTH:YOU ARE THE FIRST AND THE BEST2 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Darren Hastings You get my support, never did like Hock.2 hours ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson here's the link http://selfprotection.lightbb.com/t8656-jim-wagner-uk-level-1-course knock yourself out. Best be aware of your audience though. These aren't keyboard warriors and no nothing sycophants.2 hours ago · LikeUnlike.

Joseph Morris ‎@ Chris I just read through the forum, while I do participate on forums I am also going to say that all that was put there was stolen from a different site and all that has been dragged out for a long time Jim has come forward with everything and he is more of a patriot to our men and women in the armed forces then a lot of other people you all name as great martial artist to include Hoch. I wrote a lot of indivuals for training material only one person came through it was Jim Wagner me and my soldiers were happy to recieve his videos and knives. Jim Wagner is the real deal.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike ·

2.Chris Wilson Joseph, please stay on point. It's not about how anyone else is viewed. Specific comments were made about Jim Wagner that he has chosed to challenge in his own part of the universe (his facebook page) I advocate he goes to the source and makes his comment there if he wants to challenge assertions. If he doesn't I really don't care but to only address these questions in a media that he ultimately controls is somewhat bizarre. Of course people will leap up in support on Jim Wagner's own facebook profile. The litmus test is objective reasoning and critical thinking in an environment you do not control.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike ·

1.Joseph Morris Chris why go on a forum where there is no offered proof, if you are going to call someone they are a fraud the burden of proof is on that individual making the accusation.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Wilson No, as stated clearly on the forum. No comment would have been made if an unsolicited attempt to sell Jim Wagner material had not been made. If you ask someone to buy something, expect to field some questions. The sales pitch was made on that forum, the rebuttal was made on that forum. I see absolutely no reason to take the discussion to another area. Please don't try and place the victim card. If you make statements, expect to have them challenged.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Steve Vu No weapon formed against us shall prosper!!!about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Emilio Calogero Nothing new, Jim. Idiots seems love to attack success people. In CKM we had tons of fake news and attacks about Moni, only after a big fraud attempt, discovered and forwarded to FBI, the sources of these news had their mouths closed. The big noise generated from these idiots remains on Internet, since it becames as the fish tales by fishermans. The only think to do is...nothing. Nothing but work hard as usually you do, and receive appreciation from good peoples. Which, fortunately, is everything but idiot and more numerous. Respect.about an hour ago · Edited · LikeUnlike.

Joseph Morris all the guy did was tell people of a seminar, that doesnt make him a subject knowledge expert on all things Jim Wagner. I do know his material is good and there is no one here playing the victim card. I am not a Jim Wagner student nor an expert on Jim Wagner but he is a friend and someone who has a lot to offer the world.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Prentice Crawford The martial arts biz is very competitive, and some people think the only way they can look good is by making someone else look bad. Most of Jim's detractors wouldn't make a good hair on Jim's ass, so why would he elevate them by getting into a mud slinging contest with them. Nothing he says there would change their mind but at the same time he needs to explain to his students that such people do exsist and they should be ignored for the dumb asses they are. :-)about an hour ago · LikeUnlike · 1.

Chris Wilson very simple, if Jim Wagner doesn't like what was said on the forum, go onto the forum and address it. If Jim Wagner wants to challenge the posters on the foum, go on the forum and challenge them where they are. By posting here Jim Wagner has shown that he has an issue, yet he has not addressed those issues with the people concerned. Seems to me that he is merely looking for support fprom his followers. If he doesn't want to engage with the forum that is fine but don't then make reference to the discussion and play the "victim" card. Not everyone who disagrees is against you, not everyone who challenges is against you. They just aren't sheep willing to buy blindly into marketing. AND if you are a UK rep I expect you to be able to answer any questions that arise around the material and courses you are offerring.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson oh, and if the response to a reasonable set of questions and queries is insults then maybe you are best served staying away from adult company.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Joseph Morris I am sure he had information on the material and courses but that wasnt what was asked of him. It just amazes me how you can sit there and say he should just come and address them on the forum I am sorry but write the man personally if you have questions of his validity there is no reason for anyone to be bashed so openly. Jim has every right to be able to defend this on his facebook instead of going to a place that obviously isnt friendly towards him. Jim did the right thing and wrote the guy personally now if you have questions about him then do the same.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Mike Bourget Master Jim Wagner I would not worry about it. It shows their immaturity and it shows they may be hurting financially or they just want to get more business. There is always an attack on one style or another. They said the same thing about Bruce Lee. People are still talking about him in the negative but not as much as before. Bruce Lee proved himslef by kicking the snot out of someone and getting back to work on his films. When you have Chuck Norris saying in a real fight he would have lost against Bruce Lee then thats enough credibilty for me. You said you have people that were not dissapointed in your teachings, then I feel thats good enough for me. Each person has a gift for teaching and training. It takes years to get better but no one is perfect. I love the material you post, I think its great, don't stop. You made it to Black Belt Magazine. I think that shows you know your stuff. Ignore them. They have no idea what they are talking about anyway. Best Regards and keep on training and teaching.39 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson erm no, Joseph. Jim Wagner wrote an alleged e-maiol and then posted a copy of that e-mail on his facebook profile. I have no questions for Wagner except, if you really want to address the perceived unfair aspersions then why not address them at source? I really don't care either way just man up or let it go don't try and hide behind friendly faces.38 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.Joseph Morris He addressed them at there source never stated the forum that was you. He emailed the guy what else do you really expect him to do he is going head to head with the guy that is what real men do, not bash others openly man up and confront the source or shut up.31 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson ha, head to head with Nick. Now that is something I would pay good money to see. Primarily because Nick is the verifiable real deal. :-)29 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson and let's be "real" here. Real men don't need to hide behind facebook cronies. I'm here, quite openly asking the same questions as the forum asked and happy to field any answers.27 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Bernhard Lang They are idiots, the things you teach are very practicable, but the kravist means always they are better then the Rest,....
They do fancy stuff you can see that shit every Day in their postings,...:(19 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson wow, heads up backsides. And still nobody with the stones to simply make these kinds of comments on the forum.11 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Kjn Eric V. Torres Jim don't stress them you're the best in the world
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  David Turton on Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:05 am

well I am waiting for someone from the Wagner camp to come on here properly

I will repeat myself with an addition

I believe Nick (not Rick.. though probably a deliberate mistake to show Mr Hughes isnt worth remembering)... I dont believe all the claims from the Wagner camp

did you notice he (Wagner) states he has taught OUR SAS... would love to know who as this can be fairly easily verified.

also I fully believe Chris, I have known him for a long time, and he only speaks when he knows what he is talking about

To misquote Shakespeare .. "My Lord thou douth protest too much" .. sorry William!#

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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Peter on Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:25 am

Good grief,

OK then Gary (I assume you are control-defence) I do not personally give a monkeys about Wagner one way or the other.

I am however offering you the perfect opportunity to advertise your courses on here. You can change everyones attitude to Wagner by getting him to prove, please note that is prove not drone on without saying anything like the facebook article, that his naysayers are wrong.

Shouldn't be too hard if such proof exists.

This is a golden opportunity, up to you.

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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Chris on Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:43 am

the irony is, I really don't give a monkey's either way. Wagner may be good, bad or indifferent at what he does. I'm not bothered because it doesn't impact on me either way.

I have a tremendous amount of time and respect for Nick. If he has a position on something then I accept that position because I know he has integrity. Plus, he has the very rare ability to transcend pettiness, no small thing.

The usual dance has progressed to the thinly veiled threats and "I wont respond to you anymore because you are a troll" stage.

c'est la vie
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Peter on Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:59 am

Chris wrote:
I have a tremendous amount of time and respect for Nick. If he has a position on something then I accept that position because I know he has integrity. Plus, he has the very rare ability to transcend pettiness, no small thing

Ditto

The usual dance has progressed to the thinly veiled threats and "I wont respond to you anymore because you are a troll" stage.

Oh, there's a surprise Rolling Eyes
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Chris on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:11 am

Jerry Can Chris, the forums are poisonous and frankly a waste of time. Full of trolls. Best bet is to train with someone - if you like it, great, if you don't, then don't train with them again. It's very simple. I've learnt a lot from Jim and in 2 occassions what he taught me has saved my life. Chris, I won't reply to anything you reply to me because I don't have to and won't rise to it. Leave Jim alone. Jim - damned if you do, damned if you don't. 2 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1.

Chris Wilson absolutely hysterical! threats now!!2 hours ago · LikeUnlike.

Noah Walt That's the martial arts and training world for you. Unprofessional in many ways. Thats why I left for 5 years. You have nothing to worry about Mr. Wagner.2 hours ago · LikeUnlike.

Bas Buisman Hey Jim, just invite them for a training and ask them if they learned some thing afterwards. In martial arts people tend to look at their teachers background to establish the value of the content. But so often they forget to just experience the content and decide for them selves what the value is. It sucks but I wouldn't worry about it to much, look at the lives you have touched and focus on them.2 hours ago · Edited · LikeUnlike · 1.

Chris Wilson thank God for you lot. Snakoil salesmen would go out of business.2 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1

.Keakahiwalani Landschoot Interesting and typical on both sides. Slinging crap with nothing to back it up. Chris makes a valid point but we all know forums and threads like these lead to nothing. Boring.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Gary 'Dellboy' Dell nice one Jim, good write up. ill keep looking out for other activities happening. see you soon in the uk.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.Danny Flucke I'd bet green money they don't have the balls to say it face to face....55 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson and now with the thinly veiled threats! nice.53 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Ray Green Jim...you are in Germany right now? If so, I REALLY need to speak with you.28 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Danny Flucke Chris Wilson sounds like a cry baby. "WWAAAAaaaaahhh - I posted made up crap and still you like Jim more than me."

Why don't you just have your mommy call his mommy..?

Hahahahah - The world is full of ass douches crying for attention. F'em.

It's to Jim's credit he hasn't blocked you - Mostly because you're the source of amusement.

Carry on....22 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · 1.

Danny Flucke And the begging of Jim to post on your forum is really getting pathetic.

Once? Okay.

Twice? Okay.

But come on.

Besides - Lions don't notice when little cubs squeak.....18 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · 1.

Chris Wilson Ha, dear oh dear.13 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.B

uzz L. Mann I guess the guy is simply bored cause noone is coming to his school. Or maybe he is thriving for some attention... Poor soul13 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson is this what it has come to. No actual discussion. No actual debate. No actual proof of any of the outlandish claims that have been made. Just a bunch of mewling and "please leave our hero alone" nonsense. Grow up people, be adults and understand that personal feelings mean nothing in this context. It is all about veracity and integrity. If you make claims about your expertise expect to be asked for proof of those claims. It's really that simple.11 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson One very straight forward question. Who in the British SAS can vouch for Jim Wagner's claim that he has instructed them? I can verify that name or those names in very short order. Just inbox me with a name and I'll do the rest.9 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Buzz L. Mann I was right, you actually have too much time on your hands. How bout getting a job?9 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson and again with the personal. I am lucky that your mother gives me enough money to fund a lavish lifestyle. You see... easy to make with the quick insult. How about keeping this civil and grown up. Or is that too much to ask?4 minutes ago · Edited · LikeUnlike.

Paul Drury Hiya Jim. Looking forward to seeing you at the end of September my friend. Ignore these idiots. It's the reason I NEVER post on forums, although, I have seen one, where a guy was claiming to be me, which I thought was funny. If people have a problem with me, I am at my academy 6 days a week, they are always welcome to come and "play" if they want to lol. Someones comment on a "forum" means nothing to me buddy, I have had people post on Facebook, I just delete it and get on with my day. Have a good one sir. Talk soon.6 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Heredia Maximiliano ‎..keep on the good job Jim..forget the rest

the latest installment and as you can see absolutely NO attempt to address the actual issue i.e. Wagner is a fraud who has embellished his C.V.
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Socrates on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:42 am

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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Chris on Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:09 pm

yep, very similar situation with Spour.

It's all a bit sad really. Kind of like a school playground.

latest bunch of affirmations on Wagner. Typical responses from followers with a lot to lose from accepting they have been lied to.

Chris Wilson One very straight forward question. Who in the British SAS can vouch for Jim Wagner's claim that he has instructed them? I can verify that name or those names in very short order. Just inbox me with a name and I'll do the rest.5 hours ago · LikeUnlike.

Buzz L. Mann I was right, you actually have too much time on your hands. How bout getting a job?5 hours ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson and again with the personal. I am lucky that your mother gives me enough money to fund a lavish lifestyle. You see... easy to make with the quick insult. How about keeping this civil and grown up. Or is that too much to ask?4 hours ago · Edited · LikeUnlike.

Paul Drury Hiya Jim. Looking forward to seeing you at the end of September my friend. Ignore these idiots. It's the reason I NEVER post on forums, although, I have seen one, where a guy was claiming to be me, which I thought was funny. If people have a problem with me, I am at my academy 6 days a week, they are always welcome to come and "play" if they want to lol. Someones comment on a "forum" means nothing to me buddy, I have had people post on Facebook, I just delete it and get on with my day. Have a good one sir. Talk soon.5 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Heredia

Maximiliano ‎..keep on the good job Jim..forget the rest..4 hours ago · LikeUnlike.

Danny Flucke Face it Chris - You are an unknown nobody looking to cause controversy and gain attention by attacking one of the Icons of reality based MA.

There were others before you - Now there's you - And more will follow.

You are in Jim's shadow - Just like the rest of the cry babies....4 hours ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson oh please. Attacking me wont make any difference whatsoever. The truth is the truth. You're becoming boring now, either answer with some real content.. i.e. verifiable facts or give it a rest.4 hours ago · LikeUnlike.

Ray Green I need a good contact in Germany...any help there?4 hours ago · LikeUnlike.

Glezdo Combat Sys my friend Jim... remember the Einstein's words "The most brightness minds always find the violent opposition of the stupid minds"2 hours ago · LikeUnlike.

Tony Waite Jim, your help and advice has helped many many people around the world including me. Things I learnt from you stopped me from getting into more trouble than I could handle in South Africa, South America and other places. It also helped me be a much better teacher than I otherwise would be able to have been. Chris, you may have valid questions that need answering but calling people sycophants and mewling children because they see things differently than you do just makes you look ignorant and contributes nothing. You seem not to like it when personal comments are made about you, just as I'm sure Jim gets fed up of it too. Jim has left his facebook page open so people can discuss things on it openly and doesnt delete the negative, because reality is about positive and negative.2 hours ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson Tony, I am a reflection of the attitude shown to me. If people want to be adult then fine. If they want to insult me then I will respond in kind. I'd actually prefer to be a grown up but get more than a little frustrated by responses which vary between the equivalent of sticking fingers in ears and saying "nah nah ne na na" and outright insults. about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Gary 'Dellboy' Dell my biggest question is - - - why is this chris wilson friends with jim on here if he hates him that much?? just delete and go CHRISabout an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Gary 'Dellboy' Dell you have only had a few comments made about you chris wilson, and already your getting defensive. imagine the rubbish jim gets from all you idiots. so do everyone a favour and go away. go back to your forum where you seem to think you have power. bye byeabout an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Gary 'Dellboy' Dell this is where people come to comment on REAL TRAINING and experiences.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson I don't have particularly strong feelings either way. Never met the man so how can I? This is purely about objective thought. Oh, and let's be honest without the comments aiming insults at me this thread would be a whole lot shorter! Pleased I could be of assistance in livening things up. Maybe at some point someone could address the question of proof. You see there are plenty of real deal instructors out there who are credible and verifiable. What's the big deal in asking for proof of claims, I'd ask the same of anyone trying to sell me something.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson I'm genuinely curious. What is unreal training? Is that training that doesn't actually happen. I'm fond of real training myself, training,talking about training in all its forms but more importantly actually training has been a big part of my life since my first judo class at 8 years of age. about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Gary 'Dellboy' Dell he already done all that in 2010, proof was supplied. you missed out on seeing it then. you just like listening to everyone else and throwing your input in. you know nothing.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson and I'm a Jim Wagner friend because thus is facebook and there is no "bit interested in what you have to say" its friend or nowt!about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Gary 'Dellboy' Dell i think your be gone buddy lolabout an hour ago · LikeUnlike

.Danny Flucke The more you post Wlison - The more pathetic you sound. Congrats...about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Gary 'Dellboy' Dell people like you are not friends when you slate professional people like jim wagner. id also like to add, why have you NOT ever challenged jim himself about his background? why have you waited for it to come up on a forum?? this will be my last communication with you. i dont have time to waste on people like you.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson Oh please. Try and act like a grown man and not a child and pull back on the insults. You really do need to expand your horizons a little bit about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson gone or not it makes no difference. Truth remains truth. about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.G

ary 'Dellboy' Dell im not insulting, im pointing out the truth. no one wants you here. you have nothing good to say,about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson Truth sometimes is uncomfortable. I asked my questions when the topic arose. Jim Wagner started this discussion about a conversation that was already taking place somewhere else. Of course I would come direct to the source, using the media he chose to make his comment! What do you expect me to do? This is where Wagner made his comment.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson Oh and Fluckle, its Mr Wilson to you.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Gary 'Dellboy' Dell actually chris, ill speak with JIM WAGNER, and see if i can get you a good discount on the upcoming level 1 course. come and see for yourself how GOOD the training is and how EFFECTIVE it is. Then you can comment on it as much as you like. Your see for yourself then.??about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Gary 'Dellboy' Dell i dont think you expected jim to respond to these allegations. you were wrong. keep your views to the forum CHRIS.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson Gary, if this was about paying for a course I would already be going. I don't need a discount. Though I genuinely do appreciate the offer if it is sincere. As I said above, no idea of the material is good, bad or indifferent. The questions are around credibility. about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Gary 'Dellboy' Dell well the offer is there, come see for yourself.about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Gary 'Dellboy' Dell over and outabout an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson Gary, he hasn't responded. If he had then happy days all round but he hasn't. And if Jim hadn't brought the issue to this media I wouldn't be here at all! I didn't start this thread! about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Buzz L. Mann Chris I think I begin to understand what you´re after. If I had any prove I would be over at your community presenting it. But I don´t. All I can say is I learned too much from this man to believe these accusations. And I don´t think that you are doing your community any good here. Besides, I have no idea if FB is tolerating the copying of this conversation on your blog. Just saying...about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Gary 'Dellboy' Dell i agree,59 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Hank Hayes Hey brother Jim,

I understand your frustration and all I can say is keep doing what your doing "saving lives one training, one article, one video, one pod cast, one sit down lunch, etc.

TO THE MASSES: My name is Hank Hayes I am the owner...
of No Lie Blades and NLB defensive Measures, we officially train L/E, Corrections and Military since 1998 and have trained to today's date 9/11/2012 - 11,354 US operators.

I have known Jim for at least 10 years, have trained with him, have had meals with him and his wife and prayed together in a parking lot for someone else's well being.

Jim Wagner is the real deal but more than that he's a great man and friend.

All I can say is "so many people try to make themselves feel bigger
by chopping someone down". Stand tall, stand strong!!!

Jim, by the way lets have lunch soon.

Hank Hayes
NLB/CEO
www.nolieblades.com
See moreShop — Catalog Products | No Lie Blades
www.nolieblades.com
The world leader and innovator of marking blades. Trusted by the US Military, Law, Enforcement, & Corrections Officers. Knife defense tools & tactics.28 minutes ago · Edited · LikeUnlike.Gary 'Dellboy' Dell nice words hank32 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Mark Foster Jim you are the real deal ! I have been in many real conflicts and in you training courses you hit the mail on the Head 5 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Mark Foster Nail ,! Best wishes Jim 3 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

OH AND HERE COME THE THREATS. Right on Time

Fernando Figueroa Jim, let me fight them one on one for you so you can keep your hands free to train others. Send me the list.5 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Mark Foster I am with fernando!2 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson Fernando, you do realise that the public internet is not the best place to threaten people with violence. Just saying. And why are people hiding behind false identities in order to post or view this thread? It's not hard to confirm user id's to the point of non-repudiation if you know what you are doing.about a minute ago · LikeUnlike.

Chris Wilson This isn't a Jack Reacher novel people!
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Jagunco on Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:00 pm

Urgh..... I hadn't even heard of the bloke before this...

Odd to see the other side of things really. They all think were a bunch of wankers.

I'm tempted to go and see what this bloke has to say.

I feel obliged to say also that I did once train with Bob Spour and while I always at the back of my mind had reservations about the SAS claim he did actualy do some effective stuff... Pity he was a God Shite


Actually I have to say that stuff like this, bigging yourself up and spouting a load of lies really boils my piss. I slogged through 20+ years of training. I put up with some right characters and had some right shit until I started my own lessons and what did I get? Three people on a badminton down the local Leisure centre because I never made on I was on the Balcony at the Iranian Embassy and thank god it happened through the week cos I was on the Doors that Friday.....

I actually had an young lad taking a 'Thai Boxing' lesson (turned out to be MMA) tell me he was ex para and worked the doors.. Christ he was 18 if he was a day......


Sorry for the rant it just boils my piss when I try to be honest and do the right thing and some muppets invent a paralel dimension in their heads and have a flock of followers
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Chris on Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:47 pm

and so it ends. As usual with claims of me being an armchair warrior and messages asking me to call to arrange some trip for some training!

Par for the course really. Not a chance of a real answer. cyclops
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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  gone on Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:50 pm

zz


Last edited by gone on Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The other Wagner thread

Post  Chris on Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:57 pm

control-defence wrote:chris i mearly asked you to attend jims course at a reduced fee to see for yourself. you have never taking his courses so how can you comment.??? im giving you a reduced fee here. so why not try it and see for yourself.??? so dont slag off what is on offer here.

No actually, you insulted me, threatened me and sent me multiple messages on facebook demanding that I ring you to arrange a meeting. Ther implication being that you wanted a chance to get your scarey meaty paws on me and teach me the error of my ways.

Why would I want to attend a course i have no interest in. I wouldn't go if it was free so why would I be interested in a discount?

Plus, genius, I never once made any claims about Wagner's material to say if it was good, bad or indifferent. I stated clearly that his background contained fabrications. What would attending any course prove?

Are you five years old? Why on earth would I want to speak with a complete stranger who is ranting on the internet?
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Re: The other Wagner thread

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