Ultimate Guide to leg locks for self defence

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Ultimate Guide to leg locks for self defence

Post  TheSelfDefenceExpert.com on Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:54 am

For those of you who arent using leg locks in your training here is my latest blog with some food for thoughts and a range of web resources to look at

Hope you enjoy

Andy

http://theselfdefenceexpert.wordpress.com/The SD eXPERT WORDPRESS BLOG


Last edited by TheSelfDefenceExpert.com on Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:01 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ultimate Guide to leg locks for self defence

Post  Socrates on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:05 am

Hi.

Thanks for posting the link. I must confess I was a little surprised to see you advocating leg locks as a valid tool for self-defence against people who are much stronger than you. What if the police take 30 minutes to arrive? Or 45 minutes? Or an hour and a half? That's a hell of a long time to hold a leg lock on someone stronger than you, isn't it?

Also, what if the person you are leg locking has some mates with him. What's to stop them jumping up and down on your head?
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Leg locks

Post  TheSelfDefenceExpert.com on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:45 am

Hi, If you consider the lock to be a hold then I agree leg holds are really not useful in these situations. To be honest the term lock is actually quite misleading. The term break would be a better term as the intention in self defence should be to destroy the limb.

The issue about someone stamping on your head is also true however in the post I make it clear that you shouldn't be on the floor unless its a worse case scenario. However think of leg locks or breaks as another tool to use. If you are on the floor and the opportunity is there then why not take it. Many self defence instructors hold the belief that others will ALWAYS get involved in a fight. This simply isnt the case although it does and can happen often. It totally depends on the dynamics of a situation. For example a rapist will likely strike alone and have no witnesses.


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Re: Ultimate Guide to leg locks for self defence

Post  Nick Hughes on Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:06 pm

I'm with socrates on this...and just how often are you justified in crippling someone permanently in a self defense situation? A mano a mano ego dance usually starts with spilt beer, bumping, shirt grabs etc and you're going to break someone's leg over it? You might have solved problem one i.e. winning the fight but you're fooked when it comes to problem 2 i.e. winning the legal battle.

Breaking joints (if the law is the same in the UK as it was in Oz) constitutes grievous bodily harm which is one under manslaughter which is one under killing. Given the law requires us to do the minimum to resolve the issue and to do what a "reasonable man" would do under the circumstances you're going to find yourself limited as to when breaking any joint is going to be justified.

I just think there are higher probabllity techniques to focus on in self defense than joing breaking. Mick Coup made a valid point once as well about how many people are actually willing to go all the way and actually break someone's arm/leg (and similar techniques)

Nick
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Re: Ultimate Guide to leg locks for self defence

Post  Ade on Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:48 pm

If you're on the floor you should be getting up,simples

Many self defence instructors hold the belief that others will ALWAYS get involved in a fight

Yep,so train for that eventuality...and work down as required
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Leg locks

Post  TheSelfDefenceExpert.com on Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:35 pm

Its an interesting debate, one of which will divide the community. Firstly the law in the UK is about Reasonable Force not minimum. I'm not sure about the law in OZ. What is actually reasonable depends on the circumstances of the incident.

Crippling the opponent may be justified in certain situations however lets be clear about this. What are you saying is better than a lower leg injury? Punching or kicking an opponent in the body or head? Or throwing or choking them out? All these actions are potentially life ending. One punch can kill and often does. No one will die of a leg injury, as a result in context the use of leg locks can be far less damaging in terms of conflict resolution.

Also I am not saying that anyone should just pull guard and go for a rolling knee bar. That would be ridiculous and is clearly stated in my blog that I don't feel that you should do this. If you are on the floor then getting up is certainly the objective however think for a second. Why did you end up there? Were you knocked down? Did they hit harder? Are you dazed? Is it a sexual attacker looking to brutally rape you? All of these scenarios demand you to take alternative action than what got you there in the first place.

Leg locks offer an interesting alternative training method that I feel should be seen as a tool and simply that. It certainly is not a tactic and could be fatal in a lot of situations such as in a group fight etc. However just as using Richard DimiTris Shredder and Blauers S.P.E.A.R. do not win fights on their own, leg locks are another tool that can be added to the double hip and power slap etc.

Anyway In hope the blog article was food for thought please feel free to visit the site and theselfdefenceexpert.comhttp://theselfdefenceexpert.com/

sign up for the newsletter. The site is going through a ton of changes at the moment with so many new features due for release very soon.

Andy

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Re: Ultimate Guide to leg locks for self defence

Post  Ian S on Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:53 am

For me, locks tend to be somewhat too slow and technical to want to rely on them in a fight, particularly if you're already on the floor. After 3 years of judo, I don't think I could reliably get an armlock onto a resisting opponent in time to be sure of breaking his arm before his friend soccer-kicked me in the head, even if the opening came up. I don't know leglocks as well (they're not allowed in judo), but that only makes me even less inclined to use them! Maybe if you're a bona fide MMA expert and the opening comes up, but even then, I think you'd be better served getting to your feet.

Standing armlocks, on the other hand, I could see working quite nicely, in context.
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Leg locks

Post  TheSelfDefenceExpert.com on Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:55 pm

The goal of the incident should be never to go to the floor in the first place. If you are on the floor there will be a reason for being there, this could be

1. The attacker caught you off guard
2. They tackled you
3. You fell
4. they dragged you to the floor
5. Its a group and they have pulled you down with group strength
6. The attacker punched you so hard you dropped.

I could go on and on. However if your training is geared towards self defence then you need to look at and plan in advance your strategy. This strategy could be as basic as get up and run and that's cool. A real-life incident isnt the time for trying new moves you just learned. It is the time for using techniques you can pull off in your sleep.
Leg locks are actually easier to apply than arm locks for a number of core reasons however the same issue with leg locks that you state about getting kicked by the attackers friend also exists if you would apply an arm lock. However a person is still combat effective with a broken arm (see Tim Sylvia v Frank Mir). Yet a person with a broken leg isnt really going to cause you many issues.

Leg locks take time to learn like everything worthwhile does however if you spend time learning them then they could pay off greatly.

Keep safe and thanks for the reply to the post

Andrew

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Re: Ultimate Guide to leg locks for self defence

Post  Wayne Harrison on Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:00 pm

TheSelfDefenceExpert.com wrote:However a person is still combat effective with a broken arm (see Tim Sylvia v Frank Mir). Yet a person with a broken leg isnt really going to cause you many issues.

I'm not a fan of any locks for the street Andy. Just a personal view. the above was a good point thought mate.
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Leg Locks

Post  TheSelfDefenceExpert.com on Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:11 pm

Thanks for that.

Im not an advocate of teaching locks of any kind for primary self defence training. In fact I was a boxer long before I learned any throws or locks. Striking for me will always be my primary weapon however I still believe in training other methods to add to my arsenal.I am glad thought that this post has at least caused some food for thought.

Keep safe and happy training guys

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Re: Ultimate Guide to leg locks for self defence

Post  David Turton on Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:26 am

You should learn and practice all methods, but leg locks are only useful 'one-on-one' when you are faced with the floor.
you can rarely guarantee that your opponent is on his or her own.

the real truth behind ALL techniques and methods is to apply the most appropriate moethd/technique to fit the criteria of each situation.

Therefore I wouldnt neglect leg locks if they were the 'best' move for the moment, but I wouldnt ever simply 'search' for a specific move.

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Leg locks

Post  TheSelfDefenceExpert.com on Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:09 am

Thanks Dave, I agree that leg locks shouldn't be sought out. I'm a total believer that a self defence student should learn plenty of options and should the circumstances appear then they will be better placed to deal with the situation.

To build any fight game around a specific move can be disastrous.

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Re: Ultimate Guide to leg locks for self defence

Post  tonyk on Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:19 am

I learned Sombo leg locks in Systema.I was more than happy with at least 80% of the syllabus but leg locks would fit in the bottom 20% when it came to being workable.My reasoning was based on them being far too complicated for the average student (and I was very average) being able to use.I had difficulty remembering them from week to week,let alone applying them against a violent person whilst rolling around on concrete.

I certainly wouldn't dismiss these techniques out of hand but see them as the domain of the seasoned combat athlete who has plenty of experience of applying them under pressure in competition.Such a person will see the window of opportunity with hopefully a clear head.As for the rest of us,well we most likely have difficulty functioning,let alone noticing windows of opportunity.

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Re: Ultimate Guide to leg locks for self defence

Post  GOVINDA on Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:24 pm

I to am no fan of locks for the street, I wouldn't teach it, but that's not to say a good knowledge of Bjj or Judo would do any harm if given the opportunity !
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