question about conditioning for the street

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question about conditioning for the street

Post  Jamie Wadman on Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:59 pm

hi all,

im currently training for max strength twice a week and things are going well, im not interested in conditioning any more and wouldnt keep it up for long now has its not a goal of mine.

BUT.....

has we all know,street fights tend to last less than a few minutes, i still want to be 'fit to fight' has the saying goes. so taking into account how long a street fight lasts would it benefit me if i did conditioning work once a week lasting no longer than 3-4 minutes?? interval type training involving high speed press ups, burpees, squats and shadow boxing would be used. i could keep this short once a week session up if i knew it would make a difference.

thanks
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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  David Turton on Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:05 pm

fast weights with compound exrecise and sprint bursts

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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  GOVINDA on Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:07 pm

Anaerobic type training imo, Tabata, crosfit etc, just max it out as long as you can, aim for 3 minutes, ie one week at 1 minute, second week at 2 minutes etc etc !
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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  Wayne Harrison on Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:02 pm

The minutes one should train for a street fight is not a really useful thing to give. To assume. And to train for. If one trains for max activity for one, two, three, four mins fair enough. However if the unlimited variables in the street come into play, such as; the fight does last longer, his mate comes fresh, the attacker/or his mate pull out weapons toward the end of ones 'trained for' battle, it's making the situation harder. I err of the side of caution. I got attacked by four guys for over 15/20 mins once. It was an extreme situation back home in N.I. It's unrealistic to train max for say an hour of course. but it's mportant to realise that without checking for ourselves, we're just assuming viral information.

Your bringing in an aspect of plyometric with the burpess. Cool, but more of other types could be a good addition. Progressive in some way. Lessen a training plateau. One legged frog jumps. Press ups avec music (Maybe Nick was familiar with them in FFE?).

Can i suggest that press-ups are the king of exercises. If related to combat. And in a certain way. Fast press-ups, imo, fail in comparison to press-up that focus on strength. Strength & agression for the street is key. I dnt need to be fast in the street - what i do need is to make the guy hurt with every strike. the more max hurt i give the quicker it is over and i am safe. Bearing in mind self defence law. If the press-up is done slower - 2 secs down, hold one, 2 secs up hold one. and is done with the pelvis level with the rest of the body, with the whole body tense - this dynamic tension helps one to perform it better. I used to go to the gym 2 times a day. rotational training. Stopped it all. Only bodyweight now. The bench-press for example is crap for combat. It looks superficially like the movement we do for a hand strike. but isn't.

for example, a bench-press has stabilised you. Even with free weights. Via the bench itself. Isolating muscles in not good imo. Leading to injury. When one strikes another standing up, they have usually nothing against their back. they bring into play many things, more bodily movement. In a press-up one is exercising the whole body, including the shins & legs. Balance, co-ordination, etc. Vital tools in a fight also.

Squats are good. Again, i'd suggest no weights but your own body. They are integral to combat performance - squats.

Also worth noting is the role the spine plays in combat. All movement comes from the spine. Indeed, as it does the legs (why squats are important). We also want a strong spine incase we fall in street combat. If the spine is damaged, we are in trouble. Bridges are crucial.

Stomach exercises. the stomach ins intgral to combat. Making one move much stronger. Lying dwn leg raises. Slow as above. Progress to getting onto an overhead bar or something, and raising them is an idea.

These slower exercised bring into play tendon/ligament strength also. as well as building muscle/strength.

Can i close by suggesting it is ok to train to a time limit. but dont limit yourself to time. Smile. As indicated, we must train to get to oxygen depletion as fast as possible. And to go beyond it. It's very important. The discipline, dedication that folks train for the mats or ring is like a game of chess. There is time to work out tactics in fight. And there is rest. Street combat is relentless. So the training must be, as im sure we all know - the physical training must be to go from calm to a fucking maniac, not stopping, no breaks, relentless also, beyond our comfort zone, into our pain zone. A tool that is good is those mma masks that look like gas masks. expensive though. We use motorbike helmets. they can get quite claustrophobic, and hard to breath. A second hand one can be bought at a car boot sale for under a tenner.

For the lactic acid - Yoga.

Really maybe the most important aspect is the mental conditioning for the street, imo.

warmest wishes
Wayne
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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  mickeybluejeans on Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:02 am

quite a simplistic view (and probably wrong) but given equal fighting skill I would rather fight a triathlete than a powerlifter so i would guess training for power is best

have you been watching worlds strongest man on channel 5 ? I wouldn't want to fight one of those guys Shocked Shocked

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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  GOVINDA on Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:31 am

Yep, I'll take the skinny bloke to mate, rightly or wrongly Smile
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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  Nick Hughes on Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:44 pm

Interesting...I'd rather fight the strong man rather than the "whip."

Nick
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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  GOVINDA on Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:01 pm

Nick Hughes wrote:Interesting...I'd rather fight the strong man rather than the "whip."

Nick

Which is what the skinny bloke will say when he sees me Very Happy
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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  Wayne Harrison on Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:11 pm

Nick Hughes wrote:Interesting...I'd rather fight the strong man rather than the "whip."

Nick

How come?
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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  Nick Hughes on Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:18 pm

Because in my experience strong guys are easier to beat. Just because someone is strong doesn't mean he knows how to fight and, in a lot of cases they're lifting weights and getting massive to compensate for a huge inferiority complex. I.e a lot of them bluster and when confronted fold like an accordion.

Whips tend to be fast, have long reach and can take a lot of punishment.

Nick
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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  combatnige on Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:56 am

Under a strong adrenaline dump which occurs when an attack is made, (especially if it is totaly unexpected/out of the blue) will result in your heart rate jumping from approx the 60-75 resting rate to over 250 bpm in under half a second, this is what sucks all the oxygen out of your lungs and blood cells leaving you gasping for breath and unable to fight back due to the effect of 'exhaustion' on your body.

I get to train with an RAF medic of 25 years experience and he has seen this many times, and has investigated it quite thoroughly.

I would suggest we all get our cardio as high as possible to help negate this, as you really dont want to gas out 1 minute into a 2 minute altercation....

PS my own cardio is crap so my new years resolution is.............

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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  Nick Hughes on Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:06 pm

Nige,

Why is a confrontation taking 2 minutes? Surely that's in the realm of a sporting context isn't it?

Nick
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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  combatnige on Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:24 am

Hi Nick, sorry my point was IF your in a situation that lasts 2 minutes, you dont want to gas out or be dead in the water after 1, or you will end up on the ground with your head being used for target practice.

Same applies for a 1 minute 'situation', and your fit for nothing after 15 seconds

New years resolution - to explain myself better Very Happy

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Combat Conditioning

Post  TheSelfDefenceExpert.com on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:32 pm

Hi. My training regime is very quick but I feel it works well for self defence situations. I use the famous tabata training and work out using body weight and kettle bells.

I use the format of 20 seconds exercise and then 10 seconds rest for 16 minutes. The exercises I use differ from time to time but are done as fast I physically can and with as much effort as I can muster. Its a killer of a work out.

Ill be posting some video soon.

Andy

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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  Mr Nobody on Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:18 pm

TheSelfDefenceExpert.com wrote:Hi. My training regime is very quick but I feel it works well for self defence situations. I use the famous tabata training and work out using body weight and kettle bells.

I use the format of 20 seconds exercise and then 10 seconds rest for 16 minutes. The exercises I use differ from time to time but are done as fast I physically can and with as much effort as I can muster. Its a killer of a work out.

Ill be posting some video soon.

Andy

I look forward to seeing the video mate, I like new and challenging workouts.
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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  RichardZ on Tue May 01, 2012 7:50 pm

Nick Hughes wrote:Because in my experience strong guys are easier to beat. Just because someone is strong doesn't mean he knows how to fight and, in a lot of cases they're lifting weights and getting massive to compensate for a huge inferiority complex. I.e a lot of them bluster and when confronted fold like an accordion.

Whips tend to be fast, have long reach and can take a lot of punishment.

Nick

This is false logic. No lightweight boxer-fighter will ever step into the ring with a heavyweight boxer-fighter

From my experience, observations, no one is easier to beat until it is known what kind if skills they have.

Never judge "any" book by it cover.

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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  Nick Hughes on Tue May 01, 2012 9:50 pm

Richard,

We were, if I remember the thread (and apologies because I haven't gone back and read it) talking about pure size and behemoths who put it on because they're insecure etc. Your mention of boxing is actually false logic because you're comparing two guys of equal skill set and we all know the old adage "a good big'n will always beat a good little'n." In the instant I was referring to it wasn't skill that was being discussed but size only.

Nick
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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  RichardZ on Wed May 02, 2012 11:51 am

Nick Hughes wrote:Richard,

We were, if I remember the thread (and apologies because I haven't gone back and read it) talking about pure size and behemoths who put it on because they're insecure etc. Your mention of boxing is actually false logic because you're comparing two guys of equal skill set and we all know the old adage "a good big'n will always beat a good little'n." In the instant I was referring to it wasn't skill that was being discussed but size only.

Nick

With respect;

You are going against nature and creating a false sense of logic.

Simply, a big guy will beat the crap of a small guy.

For it to be the other way around, the small guy would have to have some type of skill.

It will not matter if it is a "behemoth or "paper tiger"




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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  Nick Hughes on Wed May 02, 2012 8:48 pm

Er...that was my point.

The skilled smaller guy can beat the lesser capable bigger guy...am I missing something?

Nick
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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  RichardZ on Wed May 02, 2012 8:57 pm

Nick Hughes wrote:Er...that was my point.

The skilled smaller guy can beat the lesser capable bigger guy...am I missing something?

Nick
ER...my "eror"

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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  David Turton on Thu May 03, 2012 1:52 am

all other aspects being equal .. a rare event, then the bigger and stronger guy will prevail..

however if ALL he has is size and strength, then someone with 10 other attributes should prevail.

if size and strength were all that mattered in combat then the world's strongest man should be the worlds best cage fighter etc

I have worked the doors with monsters who shit themsleves and couldnt fight, as well as monsters who were very capable
I have also worked the doors woth 10 stoners who were hell on the street

and everything in between

the most important attribute though will always be desire

the guy who wants it most gets it most

a real aggression and determined 10 stoner will be a bigger handful than a placid 20 stoner

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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  RichardZ on Thu May 03, 2012 2:08 pm

Desire.

I disagree.

A whimp could desire to beat a large guy and without skill, desire is not going to cut it.



It comes down to skill.

If someone has been in many fisticuffs, from experience they should prevail over someone who hasn't that much.

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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  David Turton on Thu May 03, 2012 5:50 pm

I totally disagree... someone with great natural abilities who 'cant be bothered' wont win fights..

not allowing yourself to be beaten is TOP of the list of requirements to 'win'

skill is secondary ... Try controlling a Down's Syndrome teenager who does not want to be controlled .... its bloody hard.

people under the control of certain 'chemicals' who desire your death or defeat will keep going well after a person with NO desire would have folded.

I started on the streets of North Manchester way back in 1961/62 .. 'fighting'

the guys who won the most were very determined, they DESIRED to win and they got it

old saying like .. "If you get knocked down 5 times ... get up SIX times" were prevelant amongst these street kings..

skill comes a bad 3rd never mind second to the desire to win...

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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  RichardZ on Thu May 03, 2012 9:07 pm

Well, I too, "grew up on the streets"

I disagree

If one had great "skill", those with "desire" can be overcome

After all, this is what self defense is about; training to obtain "skill" to overcome those with such "desire"

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Re: question about conditioning for the street

Post  GOVINDA on Fri May 04, 2012 12:51 am

Your kung-fu is strong Richard, I can feel it !
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