Computer simulated use of force scenarios.

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Computer simulated use of force scenarios.

Post  Mr Nobody on Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:42 pm

The NZ Police have just got these in and I had a go on one the other day with an M4 rifle. Anyone else tried them? They are bloody good but all scenarios are in real time and can be damn hard....reality is a bitch!
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Re: Computer simulated use of force scenarios.

Post  jesse on Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:34 am

Gander Mountain here in the USA has some phenomenal ones at their Academies. Unfortunately, they're only up to 4-6 locations.

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Re: Computer simulated use of force scenarios.

Post  Wayne Harrison on Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:54 pm

I know that some guys in the military tend to play shoot em up games. I used to play online against US army guys a lot. I'm guessing it is useful for their thinking/acting processes. Would this be similar reasons why you guys have started what you have?
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Re: Computer simulated use of force scenarios.

Post  Mr Nobody on Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:31 pm

It's not a game mate. It's like a game but far more interactive and serves a more practical purpose.

Basically you are in a room that has a huge screen in it and you are given a weapon to use during the scenario. It plays out in real time and you have to make decisions based on what unfolds in front of you and how you interpret the situation not to mention how this fits into what the considered acceptable force for the situation.

There is no stopping and talking with an instructor about what to do, you don't know what is going to happen and the people in the scenario do not hold back, especially the active shooter ones.

The program also shows you were your shots went and, should you hit someone, what part of the body it hit and whether it wasa wounding or lethal shot.

Its a scary look into what happens for real when the shit hits the fan and whether you can shoot accurately under, albeit controlled, stress.

It is not the be all and end all but it is very good, you learn a lot and is still quite fun.
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Re: Computer simulated use of force scenarios.

Post  Wayne Harrison on Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:34 pm

It sounds a fantastic concept. Other forces worldwide use this also? It a big step up in simulation. If it was 3d that would even be better for you guys? It isn't 3d is it?
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Re: Computer simulated use of force scenarios.

Post  Mr Nobody on Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:46 pm

No, it's 2D. We haven't reached Star Trek levels yet!

I believe forces in the USA and Australia also use them. I don't know about the UK though. And yes, it is a very handy tool.
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Re: Computer simulated use of force scenarios.

Post  jesse on Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:23 am

The USA Gander Mountain ones are exactly what Mr. Nobody described except the panels are 300 degrees around you and you're using real firearms that have been modified to add a laser and a co2 blowback system. They're charging about $45 for a half hour of use and there are no restrictions on who can use it. The rooms as hexagonal and about 25 feet across with 5 out of 6 walls being floor to ceiling wall panels and the last panel having the door and the computer console where you select which scenario. Each scenario when replayed will be the same basic scenario, but people in it will often react differently ie there are different versions of each one. Usually the different versions lead you into shoot/don't shoot scenarios and you can NOT memorize what's going to happen next or you'll fail. They're awesome to use. Also the rooms are soundproofed and you're encouraged to make it as realistic (yell, scream, etc...) as you want to treat it.

https://gandermtnacademy.gandermountain.com/simulation

As you shoot, you briefly see where your shots go. After your time is over though you go to a debriefing room and they can give you all the statistics about your hits and play back video of you dealing with every simulation to see how you did.

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Re: Computer simulated use of force scenarios.

Post  Mr Nobody on Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:22 pm

Jesse,

Yep, thats the one except we don't have the 300 degree one yet.

There are about 600 scenarios and yes you can't memorize them as they can change the outcomes according to what you say to the person/people.

We use M4's, glocks, taser, O/C spray for them and it feels like you're shooting the weapons for real which is pretty awesome.
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Re: Computer simulated use of force scenarios.

Post  Jagunco on Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:14 am

I've used these things many years ago while in the TA. It was at Otterburn camp I recall.

Lol I also recall we were terrible at it. We were told off by the BSM when we left, I remeber him saying

'Why the fuck did you shoot at the tank?'

And the memorable section where one lad mnaged to hit only one target and the BSM call up

'Gunner Martino, Fix Bayonettes!!'

Yeah it was fun
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Re: Computer simulated use of force scenarios.

Post  Dave on Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:58 am

I know that some UK Police Firearms Units have access to something similar, as in a room with a full wall in front of you which is covered by a ballistic screen. In another room nearby there is a role player who is being filmed, he can see you and react to your actions, and vice versa you can see his image projected on the ballistic screen and there is full audio. Its all in real time and you play out different scenarios. You use live fire 9mm ammunition (usually firing a Glock 17).

Again after the event you are de-briefed and the incident is played back with full audio and an instructor takes you through the scene, showing you where your shots landed etc. Its a really good training tool. The only criticism is that the one I know of was not a 360 degree range, and you were in a fixed position and not allowed to move around the room.
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Re: Computer simulated use of force scenarios.

Post  Nick Hughes on Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:37 pm

Shooting training is coming along in leaps and bounds since the advent of training systems like this and also simunitions/paintball/airsoft etc. It's a far cry from the day of standing on the range shooting and paper targets that don't shoot back.

Still too many cops getting killed though...my personal theory being it's due to taking on a bunch of skidmarks who've played a shiteload of video games.

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Re: Computer simulated use of force scenarios.

Post  Ronin Mick on Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:05 pm

Before the last martial arts school I was attending here in Charlotte folded, we were integrating firearms into the self-protection classes via time at the range and AirSoft guns.

For what it is worth, it helped dispel a lot of the self-defense myths about disarms and such by confronting a weapon that fired projectiles. It also advanced my mind-set and emphasized the importance of familiarizing myself with shooting a gun.

Those computerized, simulated use of force scenarios sound pretty impressive at Gander Mtn and in NZ.

Nick, do you think the first person shooter games are helping the bad guys by giving them a loose sense of tactics in a gun battle?

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Re: Computer simulated use of force scenarios.

Post  jesse on Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:32 am

The more advanced ones require a good bit more tactical savvy. The basic shooters require you to at least decide your closest threat, kill it, and immediately choose the next one and start shooting without any reaction. That in and of itself is a scary attribute for a baddie to have.

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Re: Computer simulated use of force scenarios.

Post  Jagunco on Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:11 pm

I used to play them all the time and it showed in my shooting when was in the TA. It gave good reflexes and awareness, didn't do your aim much good though
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