Advice to shop staff over robbers.

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Advice to shop staff over robbers.

Post  Dave on Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:55 pm

I was out walking my dog this morning and got talking with a elderly gent who lives nearby. He informed me that about 20 mins earlier he had been to the local newsagents to get his Sunday papers. As he got there he said that the shop had just been robbed by a group of teenage boys who had threatened the two shop staff members (I dont know if they were armed or not), before taking the cash from the till and the cigarettes.
He said that as he was in the shop the Police arrived. The shop itself is about half a mile from where I live and its on a rough estate.

Baring this in mind what advice would you give to the staff of a shop when confronted by a gang of teenagers wanting the takings? scratch
avatar
Dave

Number of posts : 735
Localisation : CHESHIRE
Registration date : 2006-09-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Advice to shop staff over robbers.

Post  Mr Nobody on Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:49 pm

Call the Police?

Seriously though, it's hard to provide a blanket response when every situation and every shopkeeper is different.

For example:

Are the kids armed? If so what with? Are they likely to use the weapon(s) even if you give in to them? How many of them are there and do they have more friends around the corner?
Who is the shopkeeper? i.e. is it a young fit guy or an elderly lady? Do they have weapons in their close proximity that they can use to defend themselves?
Is it worth getting stabbed, shot or badly beaten over a few dollars?

There are more questions that need to be answered than just these though.
avatar
Mr Nobody

Number of posts : 933
Age : 41
Localisation : NZ
Registration date : 2007-01-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Advice to shop staff over robbers.

Post  Nick Hughes on Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:22 pm

Mr Nobody is right. Way too many variables to answer the questions. Every one is a case by case decision. Evan Marshall told Den Martin once his rule of thumb was he'd be a good witness up until the point they ordered him on the floor and then he'd go for broke. In his experience as a cop almost every time people were ordered on the floor the executions began soon after.

Nick
avatar
Nick Hughes

Number of posts : 3119
Localisation : USA
Registration date : 2006-08-14

View user profile http://www.kravmagalkn.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Advice to shop staff over robbers.

Post  tonyk on Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:18 pm

Advice? Tell them to watch this video.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Startling-CCTV-images-armed-raid-Leicester/story-13335975-detail/story.html

It happened near to where I live.The shopkeepers have got sick of these scumbags invading their shops and have decided to fight back.

tonyk

Number of posts : 107
Registration date : 2011-01-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Advice to shop staff over robbers.

Post  Dave on Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:51 am

Ok, I probably worded the question wrong. If you were to give a talk at a seminar or meeting which was attended by a group of shop workers of all different ages, sex, physical abilities etc. What general advice would you give them, when dealing with robbers? I appreciate the 'call the police' comment and rightly so, although this is probably not an option whilst your being threatened and told to open the till.

Re the incident I gave earlier, I've found out a little more, there was in fact 1 female present in the shop at the time aged approx 19-23. The offenders all teenage males were unarmed. Apparently it was the fourth time the shop has been robbed, in the past offenders have threatened shop workers with knives and machetes.
avatar
Dave

Number of posts : 735
Localisation : CHESHIRE
Registration date : 2006-09-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Advice to shop staff over robbers.

Post  Jagunco on Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:46 am

A lot of variables. I got asked for lessons once from a shop owner for self defence which I didn't actually give him as he pissed me about in the arrangements but its hard.

CCTV would be a good general idea and a notice declaring that the place has CCTV.

Strong door leading into the back and a latch on the counter door bit (not sure what they're called and I only just realized) for better escape options.

Good alarm system

Some sort of equalizer to hand behind the counter.

Make sure there's never loads of money in the till, perhaps having a safe handy in the back so you can take excess large notes out every so often so if someone does do the place they'll not get all the taking.

Trap door? That would work 'He just fell officer!'

I suppose there are a lot of pro's and cons too all of these I'm just rattling stuff off here, and none of the above would really help with multiple armed opponents.



avatar
Jagunco

Number of posts : 1126
Age : 39
Localisation : Northumberland
Registration date : 2006-08-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Advice to shop staff over robbers.

Post  Wayne Harrison on Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:05 am

My background involved armed robbery. Before the Criminal Justice System in part rehabilitated me.

It's true there's so many variables. Compliance, provided it isn't unreasonable it key. What is reasonable in an armed robbery situation isn't the same as what is reasonable usually. In this case, it is 'reasonable' for the shop owner to give the criminals the cash. The shopkeepers actions must always be to end this as quickly and safely as possible. We should set aside our usual take on 'reasonable'. And adapt it to a specific situation.

Cases of people standing up to criminals in robberies hit national headlines. Though from what i know, there's usually a high risk & probability against the innocents with this. An armed robber by definition of the crime has to impart some level of violence, be it verbal or otherwise. And many armed robbers tactically view the items they want as thiers way before they even enter the premises. Couple that with the shock of the shopkeeper not even expecting such a thing, yet the criminal being pumped up ready way before. there is quite a lot of dangerous elements in the mix.

Nick is likely right, in USA being put to the ground being an indicator of execution. Maybe not as common in UK. I'm saying this directed at my own next comment.. Stereotypes aside with criminals. If a shopkeeper doesn't hand money over it goes two ways. Either the robber will leave, or he will use violence. There may be a little time in some with building up to an actual attack. With others, it comes immediately. And of course can be quite excessive. The Armed Robber wants to control the situation, have a successful operation, by using psychology. In many ways he has failed if he has to use violence. But many will use violence, and it will tend to be excessive. A rage can build quickly up in the robber, as they see someone breaching his control.

A criminal can live his life day in day out in crime. With that mentality. That mentality has the 'bar' permanetly raised. No shift work. They are ready, and often willing, and often do - 'Rock' at any given opportunity. They do what they do becuase they know they can. This 'knowing' confidence in their ability gives them little 'mission stress', thereby making thier actions optimal.

This though can be there downfall. And, imo, is the reason why some are succesful at resisting attacks. Take away the criminals 'knowing' he can do what he wants, and we take away his power. His confidence falters. Ne no longer works optimally.

Like Mr. Nobody says, it's really not worth getting beat over money. Or indeed anything material. If there seems to be something unreasonable being asked... I dunno. Perhaps a young lady, or indeed any female/male. Hand over all the cash. Yet the Robbers order here to shut up shop, and move into the back. As this is unreasonable that an armed robber should want this at this point, something is going beyond armed robber. Perhaps then compliance is not as best an idea.

There's so many variables now in what i write, so i'll shut up. Very useful topic though.

warmest wishes
Wayne
avatar
Wayne Harrison

Number of posts : 182
Age : 42
Localisation : Not Telling
Registration date : 2010-12-15

View user profile http://www.civilianpersonalprotection.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Advice to shop staff over robbers.

Post  Dave on Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:43 am

Cheers Wayne,
Appreciate the input. I couldnt agree more about your point that if once they have taken the money, they dont flee the scene and their attention is directed elsewhere ie some kind of assault be it physical or sexual. Its hard to judge robbers as they dont all fit a certain mold. All of them want the valuables, but for some reason some want to cause harm as well, be it through being a 'bad' robber or through choice. Its extremely difficult from the victims point of view to be able to tell the difference until its to late.
avatar
Dave

Number of posts : 735
Localisation : CHESHIRE
Registration date : 2006-09-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Advice to shop staff over robbers.

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum