Rioting

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Rioting

Post  Nick Hughes on Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:35 pm

Anyone got any insights into the rioting in Tottenham etc? Have caught glimpses of it here but not much coverage...some says it's over and others say it's still going.

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Re: Rioting

Post  Mr Nobody on Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:06 pm

From what I understand it's into it's third night in a row and seems to be spreading to other parts of London.

Pretty disgusting in my opinion and I wish I could be there to help our English Bobbie counterparts.
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Re: Rioting

Post  Dave on Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:37 am

Its spreading now not just London yesterday Birmingham and overnight Manchester and Liverpool have suffered some public disorder instances. Makes me sick to think how these opportunist scum jump on the back of any 'political' or 'community' issue and use it to destroy and loot from hard working members of the public. They are nothing but parasites!
http://www.wfaa.com/news/UK-police-arrest-over-200-as-riots-continue-in-London-127269678.html
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Re: Rioting

Post  Fraze on Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:55 am

It started on Saturday after a peaceful protest and spiralled out of control. The extent of it last night took everyone by surprise and it's clearly got no link to the original protest. Riots and looting broke out all over London and it extended to bits of Bristol, Birmingham, Liverpool etc.

It seemed to be opportunistic looting and rioting with places selling sports shoes, alcohol or electrical goods the most frequently hit targets. My GF got kicked off the bus on her way home from work because the road was blocked and she ended having to walk through some looting. She saw some guys with scarves off trashing a fast food place and a bunch of kids in the park with the blue Adidas boxes for the shoes they looted. She was a bit shaken when she got home but otherwise OK. Apparently these kids are communicating via Blackberry messenger and were targeting shops in the afternoon so some business owners were pre-warned and were able to lock up and put the shutters down.

The police did what they could and my mate who works for Essex police was drafted in to boost numbers in East London but even when they were on the scene there were usually too many rioters and looters to confront. I heard the Turkish/Kurdish shopkeepers in Hackney got together to protect their businesses as they realised the cops were outnumbered.

I can't see it carrying on tonight but then I don't think anyone really expected what happened last night either.

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Re: Rioting

Post  Chris on Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:03 am

The incidents themselves are fairly contained but the number and location of the incidents are spreading.

It's looting and vandalism pure and simple, youths taking what they can get when they can get it. This has no political agenda and is nothing more than greed and personal gain in action.

No doubt the police are making numerous and widespread arrests after the events. They seem to be employing the tactic of containment and preventing personal harm while stepping back from engaging the looters directly over theft. Probably preferring to pick them up later and not run the risk of escalation or the increased danger to public safety.

We've had riots before across the country. Nothing as concerted as this but with greater violence and more incidents of serious personal harm to the public and police officers. Whether this has been good management or good luck I am not sure.

As the goal seems to be personal gain for the looters I don't see this burning out anytime soon. What is fantastic to see is that local people are coming out onto the streets and helping their neighbours with clean-up and getting their businesses back on their feet.
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Re: Rioting

Post  Chris on Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:23 am

got to love this woman!

speaking truth!!
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Re: Rioting

Post  Dave on Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:10 am

It makes me piss when I hear things like, the Police are taking photo's and CCTV to assist in arrests after the rioting has stopped. The rioting should be stopped now before more people are hurt and more business'/ homes are looted, burnt and destroyed, the rioters are laughing at the Police.

Do we have to wait for someone to be killed during these riots before the Police are given the authority to start using a higher level of force ie baton rounds (rubber bullets) or the use of batons to clear the streets. In most parts of Europe they would be already be using those tactics and also water cannons would be utilised. We need some kind of deterent NOW!. Not some community punishment order dished out in 6 months time after the Police and CPS have spent a massive amount of their budget (funded by tax payers money) to investigate these offences.

It saddens me to say The Government are weak, The Police are weak, we have become a country led by paper Tigers.
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Re: Rioting

Post  Dave on Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:18 am

I've just seen this clip on BBC News, a young lad injured in the riots gets mugged who pretend to help him. But its OK the Police have chosen to contain instead of intervene with the rioting. Oh puhlease! this just underlines my last comment about the state of this country.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456065
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Re: Rioting

Post  Chris on Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:31 am

The police literally cannot win in these circumstances.

They take the stance that property damage is less harmful than loss of life or serious harm and they are damned.

They engage the rioters and escalate the conflict, causing more dickheads to join the mob and they are damned.

They have made more arrests than there are police cells to hold these scrotes and yet there are hundreds more to deal with.

They engage with thieves and cause loss of life or serious physical harm and they are damned.

The logical step would be to work a position and strategy where these scumbags stay at home rather than band together and gain strength from numbers. Separate, take out the ring leaders, remove the incentive to be out on the street vandalising and stealing.

Alternatively, send the police in and shoot them in the face before setting them on fire.

I'm happy either way.
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Re: Rioting

Post  David Turton on Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:43 am

law breakers are law breakers .. simple as that .. they lose any 'rights' they have when they deliberately decide to break the law

send in the army with pick axe handles and then the police can arrest the ones who are lying on the ground.. ipso facto .. end of

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Re: Rioting

Post  tonyk on Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:49 am

Its mainly kids who are doing all the damage but its being manipulated by the same people who manipulated the students and that is the SWP/UAF and other left wing anarchists.The Prime Minister was a founding member of the UAF which is just a front for the Socialist Workers Party.

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Re: Rioting

Post  Fraze on Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:45 am

There's no political agenda here. The kids looting we saw were just after free stuff. They were sitting in the park seeing what was in their adidas boxes, like they'd found something more amusing than video games for a day. No one was 'desperate' and stealing food and necessities. They targeted shops selling trainers, jewellery, alcohol and electrical goods. These kids think they can get away with anything and there will be no individual punishment. They know all about their rights but nothing about their responsibilities.

The police here are damned if they do and damned if they don't - tried and convicted through the media and youtube. Some protesters who were caught up in kettling during student protests were claiming their human rights were infringed because they couldn't go to the loo for several hours! The police on the continent take a much dimmer view of this kind of behaviour and take a much more robust approach - they start cracking heads.

You see some poor guy who owns and runs a convenience store standing by helplessly while it gets looted, trashed and you do wonder if a few of these looters would think twice if they knew they were a serious risk of taking a few riot batons to the face.


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Re: Rioting

Post  Ace Ventura on Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:51 am

tonyk wrote: The Prime Minister was a founding member of the UAF which is just a front for the Socialist Workers Party.

Was he? Are you sure as he is a Tory and the SWP is rather far removed from that?

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Re: Rioting

Post  David Turton on Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:44 am

this isnt the miners strike, its NOT political in any way.. its young snots getting a buzz out of causing some mayhem.
looting isnt political
rioting isnt political
arson (in this case) isnt political..

I was brought up on Moss Side in Manchester... I recognise youthful 'rumbles' for what they are

dont give these little shits any gravitas by tagging anything they did as political

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Re: Rioting

Post  Ace Ventura on Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:50 am

I'd 100% agree Dave, these are just no good scum who think that we owe them a living.

I am just suprised that it was said that DCwas a founder member of what is being said is the Socialist Worker Party!

As for the looters, best thing we could get would be really heavy rain. That would send most of them home. But the police need to be allowed greater powers to act.

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Re: Rioting

Post  Joshu's Dog on Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:04 am

Stay safe over there, lads.
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Re: Rioting

Post  tonyk on Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:16 am

Ace Ventura wrote:
tonyk wrote: The Prime Minister was a founding member of the UAF which is just a front for the Socialist Workers Party.

Was he? Are you sure as he is a Tory and the SWP is rather far removed from that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TW5vcQxYOg

I should imagine he got duped by the UAF into thinking it was a legitimate organisation.Their leader,Martin Smith,was convicted of kicking a cop in the groin.

The riots have little to do with a political agenda but these people are always in the background stirring up trouble.The fact that companies such as McDonalds have been attacked would indicate the rioters are being steered towards particular targets.Any example is the Sony DC in Enfield that was set on fire.A big name corporate target that these anarchists associate with the evils of capitalism.

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Re: Rioting

Post  Chris on Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:33 am

If it was 1984 you would have para's dressed as coppers giving out some serious kickings. Tory governments of the past were far more active and willing to engage their opponents physically.
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Re: Rioting

Post  Nick Hughes on Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:16 am

2 Observations (having listened to a UK politician on the news last night here)

1. He said they - the rioters - don't seem to have any fear of authority. Hmmm. You take away teachers rights to batter kids acting up in class, you take away the old style of cops who used to kick kids up the arse, you make it illegal for parents to smack their kids (or threaten to depending on where you live), you take away the death penalty and then you scratch heads stunned and amazed that youngsters have no fear of authority. Wow!!!

2. He said most of the attacks are being coordinated by kids with Blackberry messengers. There was some talk of being able to jam them to put a stop to that which sounds like a good idea. Hopefully the cops will be able to work with RIM later on and get records of any texts relating to looting from any specific targets.

3. Pretty clear, given the rioting has spread to other cities that it has no agenda other than personal gain by the looters. I think the current police response is completely wrongs. When these skid-marks sit home watching rioters hitting stores and cops standing around doing nothing it sends a clear message they can do the same thing where they live. If instead they were watching images on tv of police dogs chewing the shit out of rioters, water canons at work, tear gas, rubber bullets etc I'd be willing to bet they wouldn't be quite so keen. A mate of mine suggested closing off the streets and sending in the Paras and Marines (who have got home from fighting for their country) and letting them loose on those who seem hell bent on destroying it.

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Re: Rioting

Post  Fraze on Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:06 pm

Pretty much with everything you put there Nick.

There are 16000 cops deployed in London tonight and it's quiet so far. Everything is boarded up around here, I saw a few scrotes with their bandanas and blackberries looking for something to do. They'll get a slap round here.

They've got wise to the police checking Blackberry messages and have switched to another service based outside the UK.

Most people would be happy to see the police go in hard on these looters if they kick off again. Once again - there is nothing political here. They are after status symbol items. They are common thieves.

I did like the Russian news channel claiming that lions and tigers had been released from London zoo and were now roaming the streets. Now that I would like to see!

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Re: Rioting

Post  Nick Hughes on Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:03 pm

Lions and Tigers but not bears...oh my. Very Happy

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Re: Rioting

Post  Ace Ventura on Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:45 am

tonyk wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
tonyk wrote: The Prime Minister was a founding member of the UAF which is just a front for the Socialist Workers Party.

Was he? Are you sure as he is a Tory and the SWP is rather far removed from that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TW5vcQxYOg

I should imagine he got duped by the UAF into thinking it was a legitimate organisation.Their leader,Martin Smith,was convicted of kicking a cop in the groin.


Well Tony, that is interesting but if they and the BNP keep smacking each other, I can't get too worked up about it!


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Re: Rioting

Post  Ace Ventura on Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:49 am

Nick Hughes wrote:2. He said most of the attacks are being coordinated by kids with Blackberry messengers. There was some talk of being able to jam them to put a stop to that which sounds like a good idea. Hopefully the cops will be able to work with RIM later on and get records of any texts relating to looting from any specific targets.

Nick

What I love about this is the way some portray this as the poor people who can afford nothing rioting - organised by people with Blackberries. Doesn't this say something about the bullshit of it all?

Kids today know far too much about 'rights' but not a lot about responsibilities. In fact that is not true as I am sure many do know but the media don't like to let you know that!

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Re: Rioting

Post  Dave on Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:40 am

If the cops are Damned if they do, Damned if they dont. and so far the 'Dont' approach hasnt work, then surley lets get in there and be damned for actually 'doing' something.

Some people think the cops cant win this, which I think is bull, as soon as the cops start banging a few heads together you will find that a lot of the street scum will run home to mummy. Leaving only the hardcore trouble causes, and as far as I'm concerned they need the crap kicking out of them. We need to make a stand and show these scum that this behaviour will not be tollerated and that there are repercussions that they will not like. Not 6 months down the line with little Tommy Shit sitting in magistrates court giggling with his mates, wearing his baseball cap, tracksuit on and trainers (that he looted from the sports shop that was then burnt to the ground).

The legal system is only feared by respectable people, not by parasites. The only things these scum fear (rightly or wrongly) is the fear of violence.

You can do all the huggy warm cuddly. psychological counselling with these poor misunderstood little thieves, burglars, arsonists and street robbers afterwards. But at this time there is a massive need for force to be used. Senior Police know it, Politicians know it, but its only the everyday people, whose lives, homes, belongings and jobs are being destroyed, are shouting for it.

Only a couple of weeks ago there was this story. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019263/Cecil-Coley-Manchester-shopkeeper-72-stabs-armed-robber-death-florists.html
I know for a fact that the florist shop had been robbed by armed robbers a couple of weeks earlier. Did Mr Coley take precautions this time which led to the stabbing, I don't know. But you can be damned sure that the hundreds if not thousands of people affected by these riots (especially shop keepers) will do so, its only natural. This could lead to similar circumstances.
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Re: Rioting

Post  Chris on Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:22 am

Hey Dave,

I take onboard the logic of your argument. Damned if they do or don't so might as well do SOMETHING.

It would seem that in London the policing strategy paid off last night, or maybe it was just that there were no more FootLocker shops left to clean out!!

Greater disturbance in Manchester and Birmingham where three men have been killed in a traffic incident which is being reported as "murder". I really would like to know more about this as it is said the incident involved a group attempting to protect a local mosque.

People are talking about Manchester as if it went up in a blue light last night but the "looting" and damage was not on the same scale at all as the earlier London riots. It was basically organised "steaming" shoplifting with a few windows broken while running from shop to shop. Interesting to see the hundreds of other shoppers simply walking around and not getting involved at all in dealing with the relatively small groups of youths. I don't criticise there, I just find it interesting that nobody stepped up and everyone I have seen tried to pretend it wasn't happening.

The only thing I would disagree with you about is whether the police can win a physical contest with rioters. It has been thought in the past that physical and robust policing cracking heads is the answer and that many rioters will stay at home as a result. For some that is true but history has shown that many groups and individuals relish a physical confrontation with the police force and will step up and escalate their own violence. Now I'm not saying that we shouldn't bite that particular bullet I'm just not buying into the idea that a hard response wont engender a hard response from rioters.

As I type I am sitting watching some idiot on television trying to justify the actions of the looters based on their position in life and their hopes for the future. Makes me sick to my stomach.

One thing I can guarantee, the magistrates benches will take great enjoyment from handing the most stringent and hard hitting sentences they possible can. I would also imagine that many of the cases will be sent to the Crown Court for trial and that's a whole different animal!!
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