Tactical Underpants

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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Nick Hughes on Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:56 am

As usual you missed the entire point... Very Happy (how does he do it ladies and gentlemen?)

What's it cost you if you're right? Nothing

What's it cost you if you're wrong?

there was an attack on the Tube in London, and terrible it was. Over 50 people lost their lives, and many more were involved

Nick
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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Nick Hughes on Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:29 am

Mate...you've done it yet again...another point completely missed.

I wasn't referring to them if they're wrong...I was referring to the people who think they're off their trolleys.

In other words "If you, Brian S, are right it doesn't cost you anything at all."

However, if you (and the guys who denigrate the tactical souls) are wrong you are up shite creek in a barbed wire canoe waiting for the pros to arrive (who'll come carrying an assortement of kit)

Nick

PS: And yes, make mine helmet XXXL please...it still looks better than the one you and the other plods have to wear. Very Happy
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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Chris on Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:54 am

It's not a "tactical" helmet unless it's made out of tin-foil.

Fact.
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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Socrates on Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:14 am

I think you´re both right, funnily enough. Of course it´s better to be prepared than taken by surprised. And of course it´s silly to base your entire lifestyle on an unrealistic risk assessment.

I don´t think anyone would argue with having a first aid kit and a torch in the glove compartment of your car. But carrying an illegal weapon to go to the supermarket is a different matter...
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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Nick Hughes on Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:34 am

Brian...oh dear....

all that stuff for no good reason


there's the rub though...if something does happen, it WAS for a good reason wasn't it?

You imply that stuff is hardly likely to...the problem is that when it does the cost is often huge.

We've had this discussion before with regards to training against blades etc. The likelihood of ending up in a scrap against one, compared to being in a fist fight is miniscule. The problem though is I can screw up the fist fight and cop a few lumps. I screw up the knife defense and I'll probably bleed out so it behooves one to spend a (seemingly) disproportionate amount of time training against edged weapons.

I did point out by the way, that yes, some people are extreme in their views when it comes to the kit they carry but not everyone is lugging around copious amounts of gear. Most of the guys I know have a small bag the size of a camera on their belt with a few bits and pieces in it.

Nick

PS: why don't you throw the spare tyre out of your car? I mean the likelihood of geting a flat is so small right? Statistics show the average person will only have 3 flat tyres in their entire lives...put your money where your mouth is. Very Happy
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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Gappy on Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:34 am

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Nick!

The reason so many people laugh their socks off at the Tactical underpants mob is because they do exactly what you've just mentioned:

Carry a small emergency rucksack and a Maglight up their rear 24/7, yet forget to check the oil, water, spare tyre, etc. etc.

Shocked Rolling Eyes
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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Guest on Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:09 am

Nick Hughes wrote:

there was an attack on the Tube in London, and terrible it was. Over 50 people lost their lives, and many more were involved

Nick

I wonder how many lost their lives for want of a small flashlight or similar scaled-down item? I'd be of the opinion that the fatalities were caused by extensive traumatic blast injuries that would have stretched the usefulness of a fully equipped paramedic.

These 'tactical lifestyle' types often do amuse me though, for if you really subscribe to this ideal it must be maintained 24/7 and it blatantly isn't from what I've seen personally, instead being a selective issue adhered to when convenient. Besides not carrying their emergency gear everywhere, all the time, they make the very serious 'non-tactical' mistake of sleeping unguarded...surely they should post sentries and take turns 'stagging on' if they really want to be as 'tactical' as they insist we should all be....

Mick

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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Nick Hughes on Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:59 am

Wow...there you both go...latching on to criticism of the extremists in the tactical brigade.

Have I not said repeatedly that yes, there are people who follow that lifestyle who are blatantly over the top? All you two seem to be able to do is criticize them.

Thanks "Captain Obvious" for pointing out a flashlight wouldn't have done much good in preventing loss of life during a bomb blast in the tube...but what would it have done immediately after when everyone was feeling their way round in the dark, listening to the screams and not knowing what the fook was going on?

How about the example I posted of the car on fire while a bunch of people, as much use as snooze buttons on a smoke alarm, stood around while people inside burned? Someone with the right kit on them could have prevented that.

I guess this leads us to the following...what, in your two expert opinions, would be within the realm of sensible and not over the top to carry with you on a daily basis?

Nick
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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Guest on Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:48 am

Seems you like to latch on to extremes yourself Nick, I'm at a loss regarding what you could fit into a small belt pouch that would successfully resolve a car fully on fire...

Certainly having a flashlight immediately after the tube bombings would have made things more convenient if you were trapped down there, but the insinuation was that such items would be life saving...which isn't accurate in my opinion. I doubt that many had access to personal emergency gear down in those tunnels, and I equally doubt that anyone died as a result of this.

Personally I don't carry anything when I'm walking around a major city in a first-world country other than some cash, a credit card and a cellphone. If I'm working then it's a different story, but the deal here is that when this is the case I carry my gear 24/7, and sleep in shifts - the whole deal, not simply play at it, selecting when to be 'tactical' if it suits and is convenient.

Mick

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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Nick Hughes on Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:35 am

The people in the car on fire were trapped by seat belts - and, in the case of the toddler, trapped in a baby carrier. The seat belts, as they often do had jammed and were twisted. One - dare I say it? Very Happy "tactical" folding knife or a Swiss Army Knife/Leatherman etc would have got them out far faster than the time it actually took.

With the delay before emergency services arrived, some passengers spoke of their frustration at the lack of availability of basic first aid kits on trains.

"The driver of the train from Paddington passed through our carriage...to check to see if anyone was injured. I asked him if he could open the first aid box as we needed to get bandages etc into the second train.

"He told me that he did not have the key; he also said that the box would be empty anyway."


From "Ben" a passenger trapped in the underground during the terrorist attack

Those involved in the attempt to save badly injured passengers displayed heroism “beyond the call of duty” but were let down by inadequate equipment, a lack of medical supplies and insufficient training

From a report on the bombing on 7/7

I also think it's a tad disingenuous to talk about the efficacy of equipment if it only saves lives. For every person who could be helped by a flashlight to see what was going on, a knife to cut shirts into strips and some basic training you are taking pressure off the emergency services personnel so they can get on with dealing with the more serious injuries.

Nick

PS: So, if they carry their kit all the time they're paranoid, and if they only carry it some of the time they're not really tactical at all. scratch
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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Guest on Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:21 am

Nick,

The quotes stating that people were let down by lack of medical equipment and being unable to save badly injured passengers may well reflect the feelings of those unfortunate people - but what exactly does an average train first aid box contain? Is it full of HemCon/Quickclot, IV giving sets, DeFib, oxygen and tourniquets? People still bleed out into bandages when you're talking about blast injury bleeding.

As for those that carry full-time or part-time, my point is that those who espouse the tactical lifestyle so zealously - even to the point of calling those that don't 'victims' - are hypocrites, and only play at it when it suits them. This doesn't apply to the paranoid survivalists, who actually do live a full-on tactical lifestyle - deranged as they may be - but to friends of yours who apparently are leaders in the field of all things combative. Hypocrites, who I have seen press 'pause' on their tactical lifestyle nonesense when it suits them to do so out of convenience. For the record, anyone who wants to stand in front of me and call me a victim will find out the meaning of the word, and might get their tactical moustache ripped off in the process.

Mick

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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Nick Hughes on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:28 am

Point taken re the contents of the first aid kits but the fact remains people further from the blast suffered a bunch of minor wounds mainly caused by flying glass...I also remember one count of someone who bled out who's leg was crushed under a seat...would a tourniquet have helped? No way of knowing but I've lost count of the amount of times I've read of people being saved because someone was present who had a) some training and b) the right gear.

As for your quantum leap about this having anything to do with mates of mine...nothing could be further from the truth. What prompted the blog piece was a) watching the car on fire and a bunch of useless bastards trying to get the people out yelling "get a knife...someone go get a knife" and b) talk of gas shortage's here again due to hurricane season.

The last time we had a gas shortage here (due to a storm in New Orleans) people were stranded left right and center and faced with walking home in inclement weather. Unlike people in Europe, America is geared around the automobile and public transport outside of places like New York is sparse and/or non-existant. I remember thinking of how appropriate the bug in bag in the trunk of the car would have been (and will be if we have another shortage)

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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Nick Hughes on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:32 am

Brian...Yes exactly.

So what constitutes ok levels of preparedness and what constitutes he's a nutjob?

I personally carry a cell phone, a knife, and one of those high density key fob flashlight things (which I use all the time). On my bike is a fairly substantial first aid kit because if I come off the thing out in the woods I might be the only person rendering assistance and in the car is a bug in bag (for reasons stated above i.e. no public transport and long walks home)

Nick

PS: I checked the letter box this morning...still no sign of my propeller helmet? Sad
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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Guest on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:46 am

Nick,

I am deliberately being overly obtuse regarding this issue, and my main point is not the Swiss Army knife carried, or the small LED flashlight used as a key fob, but the clowns who purport to be secret agents and claim to carry the proverbial kitchen sink, whilst looking down their tactical noses at those who don't see the need.

Far be it the sole preserve of the survivalist nutcase to act in this manner, there are plenty of respected instructors out there behaving in such a manner - only to be highly selective about when they do and don't need to be 'tactical' at all. People rarely live up to their internet/written persona in such matters, and may say all the right words but fail to carry them out as the advise others to do.

As for having emergency gear in a vehicle - I wholeheartedly subscribe to this approach seeing as you can actually real equipment that works, not just scaled down/minituarised 'token' gestures that allow you to claim the 'tactical' title but little else.

Mick

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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Denn on Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:48 am

Post was Fiction Rolling Eyes


Last edited by Denn on Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:53 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Guest on Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:50 pm

What about one of these?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8251634.stm

You can't get much more tactical than a torch that fires bullets!

Laughing

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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Numbnuts on Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:08 am

Great thread,an enjoyable read.
Brian,you mentioned " Slacky " in your earlier post,what happened ( if anything ) to him ?

Carry on y'all..... bounce

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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Guest on Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:37 am

Slacky posts on Dennis Martins site occasionally. That's all I know.

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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Nick Hughes on Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:24 am

Denn,

We had one of those as well...turned up on a job I was on for one of the Brunei family members. He sits downand promptly pulls out a bunch of shuriken and sticks them one by one along the arm of the chair.

He was gone by the next shift...wonder if he went bouncing after that? Very Happy

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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Guest on Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:06 am

He did, at the Grafton!

Check Six!

Laughing

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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Nick Hughes on Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:46 pm

Wrong fella...I worked with who you're referring to...very squared away.

N
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Re: Tactical Underpants

Post  Numbnuts on Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:29 am

Brian S wrote:Slacky posts on Dennis Martins site occasionally. That's all I know.

Righty oh.
Cheers.

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