cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

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cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  cjgo21 on Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:16 am

http://www.mmavideosonline.com/2008/03/frank-shamrock-vs-cung-le-video.html

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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  bob on Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:01 pm

Great fight!!

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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  Jaae on Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:15 pm

Ken Milling wrote:Great fight!!

Talk about fighting the other guys fight !!! Frank's one of the best submission wrestlers in the World. Bet he doesn't try his Bruce Lee impression in the re - match...........

jaae.

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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  Guest on Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:44 pm

Well it looks like Shamrock broke his arm blocking Le's kicks. Shin against forearm is a bad match.

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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  steve morris on Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:06 am

That really was a crap fight. Terrible fight.

If I'm going to watch a standup fight, I don't want to watch some pseudo-standup stuff. I'd rather watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnd2J-MCQQI

If you're going to do MMA, then you need to look at the best representatives of standup, ground and pound, grappling and submission. Establish your highest level of achievement: this is where you need to be. And then go about modifying the skills for MMA.

But that fight you posted, Cung Le. vs Shamrock, is nowhere near this fight as a representation of standup. But already, if you look around the other forums, the TMA guys are getting wet over Cung Le as a representative of a successful TMA fighter. They really need to get out of their box.

Just use your eyes and look. The Baukaw fight is a standup fight. The Shamrock one is garbage. There's nothing in this fight of any quality. There's nothing you would want to emulate. You'd bin it. And Shamrock on his feet, he looks like you could break him in half. He's coming in half-assed; it's a wonder he didn't break a leg. Yes, he's a very good submission fighter but this is MMA 2008 and you have to raise your game, and that includes the standup.
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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  Guest on Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:31 am

steve morris wrote: But already, if you look around the other forums, the TMA guys are getting wet over Cung Le as a representative of a successful TMA fighter. They really need to get out of their box.

That's funny Laughing Meanwhile if they didn't know he was a traditionalist and thought he was strictly an MMA guy, they would be finding fault in his side kick form Very Happy

On a related note comparing that to the Muay Thai clip; you screwed me up for a second Steve! I remember somewhere here that you posted about the Muay Thai Teep (front kick) being more of an insult than anything with power. In my MMA club it is also a Muay Thai training center and so there is a mix of standup methods going on. I took that Teep kick lightly at first and that was a mistake. That son of a bitch can be a good kick!!! It hit me and then dragged down my body as it pushed me back. The dragging foot ended up digging toes into my lower abs at the end which left a nice bruise for about a week! I also got hit with it while my opponent was in the corner and I thought I had him until he leaned back into the corner and through that kick as I lunged a left hook at his head....that got me good.

I'd rather take that kick than a round kick to the ribs but it is better than I thought and I like it better then a karate front kick.

Tommy

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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  aaronk on Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:45 am

I totaly agree with steve, i watched this live with my mates on tv. The stand up was nothing more than a C class kickboxing fight.. Shamrock loves to taunt en be a show man but jeez.. WHen he is rocked atleast stop showing and finish it off.

I dont live this way where mma is going off to, its a fight.. Not a kickboxing match with little gloves

Tommy_P,
In Thai culture the teep to the face is a huge insult. Its the same as kicking dirt in someones face.

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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  Guest on Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:16 am

steve morris wrote:the TMA guys are getting wet over Cung Le as a representative of a successful TMA fighter. They really need to get out of their box.

From another forum...

I saw cung le kick... I have never seen a "harder kicker". In a sparring session, he thai kicked eugene Robinson and Eugene's quad tendon was severed.

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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  Guest on Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:20 am

Thanks Aaron...I may have to try that Very Happy I really like that kick, not for damage but for strategic reasons. However I tend to stay away from front kicks these days due to damaged feet. But I have been working Teep using the heel.

As far as that fight, I've never seen Cung Le fight before and from the build up I thought he'd be better. I was under the impression that his hands were better. You would think that after 3 rounds of seeing side kicks Frank would have figured a way to set Le up scratch


Tommy

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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  steve morris on Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:11 am

Yeah, Tommy, when I said that I meant the kick to the face as being insulting and I don't know where I said it, but I'm pretty sure that's what I said. Anyway, the body kick is a good check kick as well as a good way to set the guy up. You kick him back, you know he's coming back to you.

Don't do it with your heel, though. Claw it down as if you're trying to take his box off. To add a little more follow-through, you can turn the leg over and extend the toe a little bit. It's reaching really out with your hips that's the key to this one, and using the hand on the same side to initiate a strong pull to give the kick more drive.

I think Cung Lee, looking at him, he is representative of TMA--he looks 'traditional' whatever that means. With more fights, he'll change, and pretty soon if he carries on, you won't be able to tell the difference between him and another MMA fighter. It's like Macheda. Look at the early clips and look at the later clips. So the TMA guys see this as a validation of TMA, but I see it as a validation of MMA. You get two guys in a ring to try to kick the shit out of each other and see what happens. Eventually the 'style' of its own starts to emerge, but it's an evolving style. A personally evolving style. And that's where you can see that Shamrock hasn't kept up with the game. MMA doesn't stand still. It waits for nobody.
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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  Rob Mac on Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:28 pm

Thank God. I thought I was the only one who thought it was a pile of shite.
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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  aaronk on Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:34 pm

Rob Mac wrote:Thank God. I thought I was the only one who thought it was a pile of shite.

lol yes me to... Living in holland i can just go a average weekend thai boxing event and see more high level striking than that or simple type in k1 max on youtube.
I realy dont get the ego thing about striking that is going on.. To me its still a sport to force your opponent into your strenght.. And you into his..

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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  Jaae on Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:13 pm

Hi,
' They ' are raving about Le on other forums as the best thing since sliced bread......... and how he'll possibly / probably beat Silva Shocked After watching the fight several times I'm convinced it was staged, ( Shamrock is a key figure in the hierachy of EliteXC ).

Silva would put Le to sleep in 30 seconds. I think Le would struggle with B level fighters like Duane ' Bang ' Ludwig and Sam Stout who IMO are both better stand up fighters. Loiseau and Cote would nail him. Who's he fought ? C class fighters like Frykland
Taking nothing away from his, ( Or any fighters bravery for stepping up ), but really, as a fight fan, I don't rate Le's stand up.

As for Shamrock, pure vaudeville. Really, if you found yourself in the ring with Buakaw, would you invite him to kick you in the head...........then drop your hands !!?. I'd like to see if Le's the ' real deal ' by fighting someone like Tito, who would WOULD take him down and spice it with a little G 'n' P..........

Other opinions. please ? Very Happy

Jaae

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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  524526 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:27 am

Frank didn't even look serious for the fight, he was clowning around all the time.

Must remember that big $ is in MMA these days , with Cung being a big star among the local Viet population , it pays to keep him around.

I think Franklin could beat him if it's a straight fight.

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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  Guest on Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:28 am

I've read that Cung Le is looking at Anderson Silva.

Tommy

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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  Jaae on Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:46 am

Tommy,
Maybe Cung will evolve.................. but on the evidence of the Shamrock fight................. I doubt it. Personally, I think his style is horrible for MMA !? If people think that was a great fight they should look at the first fight between Rampage and Chuck and the awesome battle between Guida and Griffin, both great fights.

Jaae

Just my humble opinion.

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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  Chris on Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:47 am

Tommy_P wrote:I've read that Cung Le is looking at Anderson Silva.

Tommy

That would be a VERY bad day out for Cung Le. Unless he is looking at him from the safety of the stands at his next UFC event. Smile
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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  PullupPastor on Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:00 am

Chris wrote:
Tommy_P wrote:I've read that Cung Le is looking at Anderson Silva.

Tommy

That would be a VERY bad day out for Cung Le. Unless he is looking at him from the safety of the stands at his next UFC event. Smile


Nice1 Chris Laughing


Is Shamrock really that hot skills wise?
Is he actually a world class submission guy?


I just struggle to attache the title "worlds best" to any1 who came across as training that poorly in his ill fated TUF series....

You look at the lions dens clips as well it seems like the height of meatheaded "pain for pain sake" ie all pain no real gain training...
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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  Chris on Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:21 am

We're talking about Frank Shamrock here PUP. Not Ken his adopted brother.

I do think Frank is a gifted martial artist, particularly as a sub fighter but as mentioned above he's not testing himself any longer against the very best in the business and without testing then he wont develop past his existing skillset. That's a step below the standard required at the very top level today.

Imagine him against any of the top ten guys at 185 and you can't see anything but a loss for Shamrock.
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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  524526 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:46 am

Cung would get owned by Silva .

What do people think of Cung's sidekick , would it work vs a top guy who was serious and not clowning around ?

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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  PullupPastor on Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:49 am

Chris wrote:We're talking about Frank Shamrock here PUP. Not Ken his adopted brother..

Doh! Shocked
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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  Guest on Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:41 pm

SimonLau wrote:Cung would get owned by Silva .

What do people think of Cung's sidekick , would it work vs a top guy who was serious and not clowning around ?

I found it interesting in one regard but IMO over used. I'm surprised he got away with it so often. I haven't used a side kick in a very long time; I gave that kick up quite awhile back. However I have entertained thoughts of bringing it back into my arsenal lately. If I do it will be an opportunistic kick though and not one used over and over as Le did. I feel better with a round kick or a front kick where I can set up something else and I'm already moving into a good position to do so. The side kick is more of a stopping kick that leaves your body positioned awkwardly if you're just going to be popping it to the midsection. I would have to see an opportunity to use it and it would have to be something that would lead to something else. Either that or after an evasion if I could pop one into the ribs from an off angle, if I was angled wrong for any other kick. Popping it out like a lead leg front kick too many times may end up with the kick being parried and you backwards or swept!!

Tommy

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Re: cung le vs frank shamrock - for those that missed it

Post  524526 on Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:30 pm

Tommy_P wrote:
SimonLau wrote:Cung would get owned by Silva .

What do people think of Cung's sidekick , would it work vs a top guy who was serious and not clowning around ?

I found it interesting in one regard but IMO over used. I'm surprised he got away with it so often. I haven't used a side kick in a very long time; I gave that kick up quite awhile back. However I have entertained thoughts of bringing it back into my arsenal lately. If I do it will be an opportunistic kick though and not one used over and over as Le did. I feel better with a round kick or a front kick where I can set up something else and I'm already moving into a good position to do so. The side kick is more of a stopping kick that leaves your body positioned awkwardly if you're just going to be popping it to the midsection. I would have to see an opportunity to use it and it would have to be something that would lead to something else. Either that or after an evasion if I could pop one into the ribs from an off angle, if I was angled wrong for any other kick. Popping it out like a lead leg front kick too many times may end up with the kick being parried and you backwards or swept!!

Tommy

Yes , true that's why I said against someone who was more than half serious .

When Frank did get serious in Rd3 he nearly stopped Cung.

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