circular emails- martial arts marketing

View previous topic View next topic Go down

circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  James Marshall on Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:56 pm

I got sent this yesterday- does anyone else get sent this type of stuff?
Attention Fellow Martial Artists,

I need your help with something that I am working on. In
exchange for your feedback I will give you a very special gift.

Hi, Grand Master Marek here. I have been a martial artist
for the past 39 years and I used to run a very profitable Kenpo
Dojo in Phoenix, AZ. Part of my success was the fact that I
uncovered the hidden secrets of how to literally print money
in the back of my Dojo. (just kidding)

Since I no longer own the school (I sold it to a competitor)
I would like to show you how you can quickly and easily copy
my success. You will discover why I was so successful (I enrolled
more than 180 new students in less than 6 month and 80 % of ALL my students
were in the Black Belt Club with a 3.5 year training agreement and paying Premium
monthly fees).

This is where I need your help. Before I spend hundreds
of hours writing manuals, recording CDs and videos I am
hoping that you could give me some ideas as to what info
is most important to YOU and what will help you become more
successful. (see questions on the bottom)

After I get your feedback I will tally up all of the responses and
start writing the manuals and recording the CDs and Videos.

As a Special Gift for helping me out, I will give you a HUGE
discount off the regular price, when I release the information.

PLUS, you will automatically be enrolled into my "Martial Arts
Inner Circle Club" where you get additional money-saving
offers and discounts for new products and tele-seminars before
anybody else even knows about them.

To participate, simply hit the 'Reply' button and send me your
answers to the questions below.

Q 1. What would you like to be able to do better -

- Answer the phone better so that prospects come to their lesson
- More effective enrollment procedure that causes prospects to enroll
- Learn how to teach fun and exiting classes to keep students motivated
- Learn how to upgrade students into the BBC quickly & easily
- how to get more info calls from your advertising
- what advertising works the best and what ads are a waste of money
- anything else that you want to learn

Q 2. What format would you like the information in?

- written manuals
- CDs / audio recordings
- Videos / DVDs

Q 3. How much do you think other Martial Artists would pay for this
information? Remember, you are getting it at a HUGE discount.

Q 4. Last question. Please tell me a little about yourself so that I can
properly set up your "Martial Arts Inner Circle Club" membership

- Your name
- rank
- name of your school
- complete address
- phone number
- system/style you teach
- number of students
- last time you were promoted
- how long have you been in the arts
- what association do you belong to

I am looking forward to getting your feedback today.

Sincerely yours,

GM Ron Marek
10th Dan - Bushido Kenpo

P.S. Now go ahead and hit the "Reply" button and send me the
answers to the questions and you will SAVE BIG when the information
is released.


[i] It is from a 10th Dan though
avatar
James Marshall

Number of posts : 16
Registration date : 2007-12-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  Cuddly Werewolf on Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:03 am

I guess it is the same Ron Marek?
People at martialtalk seem to be...not too fond of him Smile .
Maybe it's because he is so good at marketing, or maybe there are other reasons Cool .

Cuddly Werewolf

Number of posts : 46
Localisation : Sofia, Bulgaria
Registration date : 2008-02-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  Luciano Imoto on Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:41 am

The whole thing's a sham.
avatar
Luciano Imoto

Number of posts : 107
Age : 44
Localisation : Brazil - São Paulo city
Registration date : 2007-08-07

View user profile http://www.aikidoimoto.org

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  steve morris on Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:26 am

I think a lot of people are offended by this kind of marketing--and for me, the smug, self-congratulory, self-important expression in the photo is particularly off-putting. This is the face of a used-car salesman: 'Trust me.'

But this is the way I look at 99% of martial arts instructors, at least those who aren't fighting in the ring. This guy isn't an exception; he's the rule. It's just that his marketing is more extreme.

There are a lot of guys out there selling their 'product', and they give every indication that they're successful martial artists. But the only thing they're successful at is marketing. The marketing might not be as extreme as this. It might be couched in more intellectual/spiritual terms, it might even seek to gain credibility by making fun of ads like the one you've posted, James. It's easy to take pot shots at ads like this, but at the end of the day the question is what can you do as a martial artist?

And when I look at a lot of the big names in the martial arts, there's nothing there, just a lot of talk.

Going back to the guy's face: look on the DVD covers, the websites, the magazines. You'll see the same expression: 'Trust me. I'm an expert.'
avatar
steve morris
Moderator

Number of posts : 293
Localisation : UK
Registration date : 2007-08-01

View user profile http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  James Marshall on Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:04 am

I'm not taking shots at him- at least they are honest in their desire to print money from teaching at dojos. Although the 10th Dan bit is funny. But don't get me started on gradings.
avatar
James Marshall

Number of posts : 16
Registration date : 2007-12-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  steve morris on Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:11 am

I wasn't talking about you, James, taking pot shots.

The grading stuff is a totally different issue.
avatar
steve morris
Moderator

Number of posts : 293
Localisation : UK
Registration date : 2007-08-01

View user profile http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  Luciano Imoto on Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:08 am

The grading stuff is a totally different issue.

Is it possible explain more about the grading system in martial arts and in Morris Method?
I ask this naif question because I don´t see any real help in belts (black include), patches, flags, certificates, in fight matter.
In old schools (in eastern and western), they had only two levels: Apprentice and Teacher (like a Coach).
In MMA world (and another types of combat sports) the grading seems to be in competition ranking, although almost all pro-fighters have black belts in some type of classical martial art...
Even you, Mr. Morris, was (and probably still being in documents) considered a high level martial artist in Dan grading system.
So, how to estimate, motivate and probe the personal evolution if we are not fighting in cage (or streets)?
avatar
Luciano Imoto

Number of posts : 107
Age : 44
Localisation : Brazil - São Paulo city
Registration date : 2007-08-07

View user profile http://www.aikidoimoto.org

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  bob on Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:06 pm

So, how to estimate, motivate and probe the personal evolution if we are not fighting in cage (or streets)?

You go and train with Steve Morris and the Primal guys for an honest reality check, you then go home and burn your certificates!

The grading systems these days are generally BS, IMO.

bob

Number of posts : 102
Registration date : 2007-08-08

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  Luciano Imoto on Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:43 am

Thanks Milling,

I agree with you. Burn all that trash stuff (belts, certificates, flags...)

I have all Morris Method´s DVDs and after hours and hours watching each one, trying without rest to hear and decode that UK english accent Razz , my only desire is train directly with the man behind the method!
But, I live in south hemisfery... in a southeastern state of Brazil... no opportunity (in £ terms) in present to travel and train some weeks with Primal Team.
Happly, in near future I will have my "opportunity" Wink

Lets return to the question:
Mr. Morris probably will certificate/authorize some students to share his approach of fight.
A pro-boxer/MMA understand very fast that claw/hammer punch of Morris Method and the "Uzi mentality", but a apprentice without any fight experience probably not.
So, natural (not artificial) grading exist in this case. Human abilites are different each other. No only in hierarchical mode, but in real capacity (natural or acquired).

So, my original question, after above reformation, is:

How to estimate, motivate and probe the personal evolution (mine and of my partners) if we are not fighting in cage (or streets)?
avatar
Luciano Imoto

Number of posts : 107
Age : 44
Localisation : Brazil - São Paulo city
Registration date : 2007-08-07

View user profile http://www.aikidoimoto.org

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  bob on Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:54 pm

How to estimate, motivate and probe the personal evolution (mine and of my partners) if we are not fighting in cage (or streets)?

Go and train occasionally with MMA, Vale Tudo, BJJ guys etc. Guys who will provide a realistic bench mark. Avoid people like the guys in the clip that you posted Laughing

bob

Number of posts : 102
Registration date : 2007-08-08

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  Luciano Imoto on Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:47 pm

Since 2001 I avoid and dismiss that guys, Ken.
That´s not the point...

Please, Mr. Morris, help us!
avatar
Luciano Imoto

Number of posts : 107
Age : 44
Localisation : Brazil - São Paulo city
Registration date : 2007-08-07

View user profile http://www.aikidoimoto.org

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  Thomas O'Shaughnessy on Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:52 pm

The Promotion system within modern day martial arts is what?? Your teacher’s way of telling you that you’re getting better. And of course it is a source of revenue for the teacher and his organization.

I have visited many clubs in the United States, Large workout areas, beautiful gi’s, lots of colors, colored emblems and patches. They march up and down the Dojo, punching and kicking holes in the air and shouting loudly.
I see them workout on the bag and some dummies. They spar with full body armor with no great aggression. I’ve been told that due to liability issues, the sparring must be light and controlled. There should be no injuries. Of coarse they are promoted on a regular basis, there are multiple classes, and different disciplines, each requiring different colored gi and more promotions, and more revenue for the school and organization. I’ve even seen an ad where you send for a set of DVD’s, where you are on the honor system. After you have viewed all of them, you’ve qualified for a black belt, beautiful certificate all included in the package for around $300.00!
Then there are the organizations that invite you to send in your martial arts resume, and if you qualify, (of course you will), you send them a check and get another certificate to hang on your wall. The size of the check decides the Dan grade. Every month you get an opportunity to purchase another package to help promote your school, different ideas, mostly how to stiff your students with some more fees. Then you find out the school down the road has got an instructor who’s a 6th Dan. So to be better you have to get at least a 6 ½ Dan. So back to the organization for a new certificate; in the event that any of their students has ever to defend themselves in a real life situation, the mugger does not care whether you are a white belt or a 10th Dan. The only color he sees is the color of the money he wants from you. So you better be sure that whatever you learn from whoever works. Some people say they are only in it for the art, (take up painting) the philosophy (buy a good book), the Kata (take up ball room dancing). Ask yourself what you want out of the martial arts. As for the belts and grades, you will find many instructors who will gladly take your money, including the scam artists. They all appeal to a person’s vanity. If you want to learn how to really defend yourself, you have to take the knocks that come with it. Remember to most modern day instructors, it is a business, they want your money, there’s nothing wrong with that, but in return you should at least be able to defend yourself if the need arises. Do not let the size of the Dan grade fool you, because a lot of them would have trouble surviving in a real fight. I guess the reason Steve’s classes seem to be small in number is because they are being taught the real thing. In a real world fight, who would you rather have in your corner, one of Steve’s students or some fancy 10th Dan who is good at marketing? Remember if you want to buy a pound of meat, go to the butcher, not the baker.
One day at Earlham Street a guy came to the club to workout. He came up to Steve, and told him he had various Dan grades in different styles and he wanted to know what color belt he should wear for the workout. Steve said there’s a box over in the corner with a bunch of belts in it, and to pick one. The guy said, what color? Steve said the only thing the belt will do is hold the gi closed, so the color doesn’t matter.

P.S.
Those that have the opportunity can visit Seni in London on April 27th, 2008. You can do a comparison on the different styles and teaching methods. Take the opportunity while it’s there to visit with Steve in person.

Thomas O'Shaughnessy

Number of posts : 3
Localisation : Chicago, USA
Registration date : 2008-03-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  Luciano Imoto on Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:00 am

Thanks Mr. O'Shaughnessy,

I understand perfectly this modern and perverted grading system with all that colored belts, special papers... all based in real money not in real fight ability.
Ken advice "Go and train occasionally with MMA, Vale Tudo, BJJ guys etc. Guys who will provide a realistic benchmark."
I have some friends with this qualities and in past I trained a Hapkido fighter to win a tournament of "Free-style" (i.e. MMA).
This guy probed himself in that competition and was awarded like a champion. So, sport ascension was his graduation in martial arts.
One student of mine are in Military Police's Shock Batallion and he is more "combative" in approach, so he have streetfight graduation in martial arts.
But, how to estimate, motivate and probe the personal evolution of my partners (commom people) if they are not fighting in cage, streets or with Primal team?
avatar
Luciano Imoto

Number of posts : 107
Age : 44
Localisation : Brazil - São Paulo city
Registration date : 2007-08-07

View user profile http://www.aikidoimoto.org

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:11 am

Are you saying that you train with the same people all the time? If so then you need to spread out and find others to constantly challenge yourself. But that is just a gage of your skill. As far as ranking or where you stand as far as advancement....does it really matter? Just keep training and raising the bar.

Tommy

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  Luciano Imoto on Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:41 am

I´m not in business of ranking, promotional gradings or fantasy marketing. Period.
I also do not believe in kneeling at the feet of a sage and absorbing wisdom, because more often than not the sage is a wise guy who’s out for my money pirat


My original question, maybe not so easy to understand (english is not my first language), are about measure personal advance. Competition, cross training with another fighters and streetfights, war campaigns... are common sense and, of course, great in real test to self-evolution and self-avaliation. I agree with you, Ken and Thomas. This is not the point here.
But crime is not a competition or streetfight or a cross training in another gym. It doesn’t give you time to prepare or warm up. It doesn’t guarantee one-on-one match. It’s not a fair match. In really its not a match at all...
The approach of my study is more how skilled, experienced and murderous criminals in our culture use hands and weapons, and the lessons I have learned from our and others’ experiences, as well as from criminals directly have given me an entirely different perspective from what I have found to be the common paradigm in dojos and training halls today.

Just keep training and raising the bar.

My ask remain: how to measure this "raising bar"?


Last edited by Luciano Imoto on Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:26 pm; edited 3 times in total
avatar
Luciano Imoto

Number of posts : 107
Age : 44
Localisation : Brazil - São Paulo city
Registration date : 2007-08-07

View user profile http://www.aikidoimoto.org

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  Luciano Imoto on Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:55 am

In time:
Although I´m not in business of ranking, I´m not against merchandise, DVDs, t-shirts etc. Wink
avatar
Luciano Imoto

Number of posts : 107
Age : 44
Localisation : Brazil - São Paulo city
Registration date : 2007-08-07

View user profile http://www.aikidoimoto.org

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  steve morris on Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:57 am

I think this is the problem, Luciano. A lot of martial artists can't tell shit from sugar. THey can't measure their own abilities against what they're seeing in You Tube and in live competition. They're living in a fantasy world, and they have really no measure of reality.

And I think that's where MMA training comes in and at least starts to give some glimpses as to what the reality might be. Even if you're training in a club environment.

There are lots of guys who come into Primal with no fighting experience at all, but the way we conduct the training tests them and removes any ambiguity about whether what they're doing is functional or not. It becomes very clear what they should be striving for and where they need to get, psychologically, physiologically, and technically.

From my point of view as a trainer, I'm not going to issue grades, instructor certificates, or anything like that. I feel the martial arts are about self-realization, whether that's learned on the streets or in the gym, or in competition. You have to be your own man, and anybody who walks in your club, you have to encourage them to do the same.

You need to take responsibility for your own actions, and not place that responsibility on me, or any teacher. That's how you can easily get deceived.
avatar
steve morris
Moderator

Number of posts : 293
Localisation : UK
Registration date : 2007-08-01

View user profile http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  Luciano Imoto on Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:42 am

Mr. Morris,

Do you see any help in combine MMA approach with Combative to "raising the bar"?
I ask this because you and Mick Coup are doing a good partnership in seminars since last year and the student´s feedback seems usefull.
avatar
Luciano Imoto

Number of posts : 107
Age : 44
Localisation : Brazil - São Paulo city
Registration date : 2007-08-07

View user profile http://www.aikidoimoto.org

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  Guest on Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:08 am

Luciano Imoto wrote:
Do you see any help in combine MMA approach with Combative to "raising the bar"?

I know you are asking Steve but you mention "raising the bar" in your question and I had mentioned that to you earlier so I'll address what I meant.
What I meant by that was this: I'm not sure what access you have to others in your training or if you are only training with the same guys all the time. I have been in similar positions myself over the years, but I always try to go find someone else or another style or whatever to train with just to keep myself moving forward. I am always surprised by what I "don't know" in those situations. Sometimes I am on the right track but missing the reality of it all. The way one guy punches you in the head isn't the same as the next guy, you need variety. One of my course changing experiences was years ago when I was a brown belt who thought he knew everything. I started to train in Jujitsu to supplement my karate and became friends with one of the instructors who also boxed. We trained together in his basement gym a few times and when we fought I immediately ended up bloody from a cut he opened over my eye. Wow, that wasn't how it is supposed to work!! Later it was my introduction into Kyokushin that gave me the next surprise. Then last year it was BJJ which really opened my eyes and more recently it has been MMA and Muay Thai. I go out and find stuff that keeps challenging me and keeps me progressive. It isn't always available but I make due. So in essence, you try to knock yourself back a notch so that you can move up two knotches...if that makes sense. I work my way up the totem pole of skill then find someplace where I am the low man and out of sink with my fighting and training. Then I learn and climb up toward the top. After awhile I find something else to knock me down a peg and so on.
Or at least that is how I "try" to do it. These days it's as time permits.
That is what I meant for you by raising the bar.

I was also referring to raising the bar in training by constantly making things more difficult or more intense or different in ways. Longer rounds less rest, different pace, add weights, more interval training, odd equipment, altering sparring rules, unorthodox attacks or whatever else you can think of...be imaginative.

Bottom line is I think you need to fight more with other types of fighters....strangers or different styles. You need to be able to adjust quickly and make adrenaline your friend rather than it turning to panic. Variety breeds a certain amount of comfort and confidence while repetitiveness leads to false security through familiarity.

Tommy

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  Luciano Imoto on Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:28 am

Thanks Tommy_P

I mentioned that "raising the bar" because I really liked it Wink
And I understand yours advices and I´m aware about the needs of a variety of training and partners (and in the same time to avoid the cross training trap in this process).
I drive motorcycle and after two crashes on the road I learned a important lesson:
Our great enemy is the familiarity, the boring routine.
But this advice suites to the marriage too Laughing
avatar
Luciano Imoto

Number of posts : 107
Age : 44
Localisation : Brazil - São Paulo city
Registration date : 2007-08-07

View user profile http://www.aikidoimoto.org

Back to top Go down

Re: circular emails- martial arts marketing

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum