Something to kick around

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Something to kick around

Post  steve morris on Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:01 am

Iíve known a couple of guys in my life who not only didnít practice the martial arts but didnít even train, yet because they were what you might term natural born killer types, boy could they fight.

On the other hand, Iíve known hundreds of martial artists, some of them respected masters of Eastern traditions who religiously practice the minutiae of their respective disciplines every single day and are assumed (as masters of such traditions) to be the possessors of a mindset equivalent to that of a natural born killer. Their explanations of the warriorís mindset are accepted without question. Yet this is all quite irrespective of the fact that these masters couldnít fight, period, let alone take on a natural born killer type and win.

I did occasionally come across those martial artists who could fight in every sense of the term. They were natural born killer types, and as such they had been the possessors of that mindset necessary to fight with long before they took up the practice of the martial arts. Their occupation (as doormen, for example) more so than their martial arts practices allowed them on a regular basis to Ďlegitimatelyí gratify and express their innate destructive violence and adapt and hone the simplest of skills against those they considered to be scum and justifiably deserving of a beating.

Doormen are often held up as the gold standard of what this mindset needs to be and the possessors of those skills that work and those that donít. But Dennis Jones once told me (and this supports my own experience and observations, and Iíve known quite a few doormen) that of the hundreds of doormen he had been acquainted with, very few of them could actually fight. Many of them just played a peripheral role. He said that of those that could fight, only a few were keen to get into the mix when the shit really hit the fan. Some only did so Ďafter the eventí so to speak And I wouldnít mind betting if this is true of doormen then itís probably true of others in the security business, both military and private. The word of these guys is often taken as gospel, but their actual, real experience of violence is questionable. And in my experience, some of them take libertiesótake a guy out and beat the shit out of him for no just cause. Taking a free pop at somebody whoís half your size and isnít causing any real trouble doesnít qualify you to dish out advice on how to fight.

This raises the question: who do you listen to and try to emulate with regards to what this necessary killer mindset might be and how to go about training it, not to mention which skills work within the chaos of a violent situation and which skills donít? In other words how do you discriminate between what is total crap and what is the real thing?

Hereís the simple answer. Compare what the so-called masters or experts have to say regarding mindset, skills, etc. to what somebody like Dennis Jones or Mick Coup have to say. In the case of the latter, their mindset and skills have been shaped and honed by repeated exposure to potential and actual violence and not by philosophizing about it within the safety of a non-challenging environment, or whilst tapping on the keys of a computer with a beer close at hand.

If you compare what the so-called masters say to what guys like Jones and Coup say, youíll see a big discrepancy. I know who Iíd listen to. But thatís because Iím speaking from an experience of real violence, just as Jones and Coup are. The majority of martial artists ainít. And probably never will be.

But a word of warning. Remember that just because a guy is considered a master, or has military or door experience, it doesnít follow that he can fight. Thatís why we keep coming back to the same thing. Donít take any Ďexpertí at their word. Watch the fight and then judge what youíre being told against what you can see in the chaos of a real exchange.
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Re: Something to kick around

Post  BN on Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:18 am

Steve,

Were the natural born killers with no training big guys? In my opinion you would have to be a decent size to be able to be dangerous without any form of training. At least in bare handed fighting. I couldn't see a nine/eight stone weakling being all that formidable without something. It's back to the idea of having a "loaded gun" for me. Ok, you could be pshycologically loaded, but you need a "gun" to fire as well.

Also, I get the impression that the martial artists/doormen you were are speaking of are Gary Spiers and Terry O' Neil. They seem to be guys that you rate as good fighters, are they the best martial artists you've met personally?

I agree that we shouldn't take things too much at face value when it comes to publicity and the media. In martial arts as well as in general. Anyone can obviously claim anything. I was saying once on another forum that some claims of X amount of fights can be a bit hard to believe. Not having a dig at anyone in particular. Just the general marketing that takes place in some quarters.
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Re: Something to kick around

Post  MikeB on Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:10 am

Bloody Nuisance wrote:In my opinion you would have to be a decent size to be able to be dangerous without any form of training.... I couldn't see a nine/eight stone weakling being all that formidable without something.

Being only a small guy myself, Steve once mentioned to me that size is most definitely not everything (in this context at least lol! )

As you mention, it is more to do with being psychologically 'on it' than anything else. Bear in mind that when Steve was training full-time in Japan, he was only something like 8 or 9 stone?!?

One of the scariest guys I knew was smaller than me, but he just didn't seem to have any concept of fear. Although he had no 'dojo' training, he had plenty of hands on experience through decades of scrapping multiple times a week. Fighting was a non-issue to him and, believe me, he hit HARD by any standard.

You often find that it is the small guys (with Napoleon complexes) who may have been bullied, etc, who just suddenly snap one day and start fighting back.

Obviously, all other things equal, I'd put my money on the bigger guy, but there are plenty of smaller nutters out there who would bang you out without a thought.

Steve mentions something on his website about the Golgi tendon reflex and being able to overcome this. He talks about mothers smashing down doors to get to their children in burning houses, and the like. These are not physically strong people, but because they find themselves in that psychological mind-frame, they are able to perform physical feats that might otherwise be impossible.

I'm guessing that people like my friend Lee, who I mentioned above, and other '2%ers' are naturally able to access this state at will, or else are naturally in this state at all times.

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Re: Something to kick around

Post  steve morris on Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:31 am

Mike B I was actually about 10 1/2 stone in Japan, and the best fights I ever had were always at around that weight, and the fights were against some big guys.

The natural born killer types I was thinking about were actually smaller guys, vicious guys. Life circumstances had made them that way; they didn't need training. This idea that you have to be big to be successful as a fighter is bullshit. Pound for pound the best hitters are usually the middleweights.

Like I used to say to Terry O'Neill, it ain't the hypertrophy of your muscles, it's the magnitude of neural impulses to them that determines your ability to produce explosive force.

I'll let you guys discuss this one and come back on at some point.
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Re: Something to kick around

Post  BN on Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:48 am

I'm glad to hear that. I am not a big guy, 5'8/9 and about twelve and a half stone, maybe closer to thirteen. I am all for smaller guys doing well.

I think as a society we are often conditioned to regard size as being the definitive factor. Sorry if it seemed like I was saying it was in the other post on here. I didn't mean it that way. Personally I find it irritating when people judge by size. I don't do it simply because I have been underestimated in the past due to my size and demeanour, and so I don't want to make that mistake with anyone else.

The reason, i said that these natural born killers were probably big was because I have seen/heard of larger types being dangerous due to sheer size, and when there is zero training I think size could come into play a bit more. Also, when I was a kid, I was very small, and at a bit of a disadvantage because of it. I'm not a natural born killer though! Hope all this doesn't seem to contradict the above.

Ability is defintely what really counts. There would be no point in training otherwise. And it's obviously the ferocious killer mentality that is important to develop.
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Re: Something to kick around

Post  SteveT on Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:56 pm

Speaking as a small, non-natural born killer but also as someone with a hopefully decent bullshit detector, I have to say that I listen to the person who makes the most persuasive case for what they're saying, as long as what they're saying chimes with my own limited experience and that of my personal acquaintances.

I trust my own bullshit filter to keep out the total charlatans but I accept that this may also lead to my filtering of genuinely good but leftfield ideas: I suspect that this reliance on common (but possibly false) sense has been one of the reasons that Steve Morris has found it harder to be heard than, for example, Geoff Thompson.

Geoff was an important influence in turning me (and many on this site -- its is after all an offshoot of Geoff's forum) away from straight up traditional karate and onto more effective arts or at least effective training methods and awareness techniques. What he said just seemed to make sense: he was neither a phenomenal physical specimen nor a natural scrapper but he seemed to have a documented, effective method of coming out on top more times than not. He communicated that effectively, so I listened. It might all be complete bollocks -- I wasn't there on the doors of Coventry -- but I suspect that he'd have been called on it and exposed by now if that were the case.

I admit that I find the likes of Steve and Mick Coup daunting. I'm out of my comfort zone training MMA anyway; I'm not fit enough, good enough or strong enough to get through the drills, sparring and training I do at my own club unscathed despite giving it my all 5 or 6 days a week. I just don't have the years in yet. The thoughts of Mick or Steve taking me even FURTHER out of my comfort zone is frankly scary. They intimidate in a way that Geoff doesn't, but I admit that in person that could be a totally false impression.

That said, if I lived near either of them, I'd go and give it a try. And they're both welcome in Spain of they fancy a free weekend in Barcelona Very Happy

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Re: Something to kick around

Post  Monty Sneddon on Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:48 pm

I think Mick and Steve appear daunting due to the mental attitude that they both possess. This is, in my opinion, the biggest difference (there are many more I reckon) between them and I'd say pretty much every other instructor working in the Self Protection and MMA fields. As Mick once said, you could beat someone to death with a hand bag if you had the correct mental attitude and they've both got it!!
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Re: Something to kick around

Post  Wingit on Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:44 pm

Monty Sneddon wrote:I think Mick and Steve appear daunting due to the mental attitude that they both possess. This is, in my opinion, the biggest difference (there are many more I reckon) between them and I'd say pretty much every other instructor working in the Self Protection and MMA fields. As Mick once said, you could beat someone to death with a hand bag if you had the correct mental attitude and they've both got it!!

.....after alienating himself from almost everyone on the self protection forum Monty left to start work on the appropriate fan club ! May I ,on behalf of the rest of the forum, takes this opportunity to wish you the very best with your new endeavor, it was nice having you here Monty lol!
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Re: Something to kick around

Post  Monty Sneddon on Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:50 am

Wingit wrote:
.....after alienating himself from almost everyone on the self protection forum Monty left to start work on the appropriate fan club ! May I ,on behalf of the rest of the forum, takes this opportunity to wish you the very best with your new endeavor, it was nice having you here Monty lol!

I know you're taking the piss a bit mate, but I was just wondering why you'd think that mate? It is after all only my opinion..

I have it from the horse's mouth that if Mick even whiffed a fan club regarding C2 anywhere he'd put it out of business before it even started!! He has actually said that he will never certify an instructor who blindly agrees with him. He's not a fan of sychofants as it were.

I don't know Steve well at all, having only met him once, but from what I've read on his website I think he may be pretty much the same.

On a differrent note, are you going to the course next weekend in Galsgow?

(Apologies to Steve if these posts have gone slightly off topic.)
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Re: Something to kick around

Post  arthur meek on Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:26 am

Hi Steve after reading what you said I decided to kick it around a bit because there were several points that came across. i.e guys who don't train but can fight and also vice versa, doormen, big guys and little guys etc., plus about listening to advice of experience. The problem with listening to related events from experience they can sometimes come across, dare I say, a little bit romantic, good guy beats the bad guy. However the high wired emotion, expletives, blood and snot of the situation sometimes goes amiss and listeners/readers can go away and say 'wow that was a great story, result, outcome' whatever. But if they had actually witnessed the event their whole perception of the incident might be totally different despite the same result. What am I trying to say? Watching some of the street fights portrayed on You Tube can bring home the reality; it's often all there, the atmosphere, the violence, the rabid anger that can be just around the corner from people of all sizes and both sexes. A bit scary but enlightening.

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Re: Something to kick around

Post  BN on Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:26 am

I think that's a god point about the romaticising of fight stories. I have read lots of stuff like Geoff Thompson and the old Gary Spiers interview in FAI, and it really can seen like the "good guys" whopping the "bad guys" but in actuality, being involved in situations like that would, well, suck.

Regard who's telling the truth, I think that it just comes through. This is why some guys are listened to and others are not Geoff Thompson always rang true, for me anyway, Steve Morris is the same. Years ago when I used to read "self defence" books, I got a number of books by a guy called Marc Animal Macyoung, and I am somewhat dubious about his claims. I think if someone is the "real deal" it more often than not comes through if you have common sense enough, and experience enough to see it.

However, I think we should always be sceptical, and not take anything at face value. I think that guys get too much cedibility when they are published in MA mags like MAI or COMBAT. Being in the MA press often gives people instant credibilty, and readers of such are often prepared to swallow anything the latest "celebrity" has to say.

People in general want heros, icons, and gossip. We as martial artists are no different. I think that in MA as in life in general we get a lot of dross fed down our throats, and it's up to us to be more discriminating and to think for ourselves.

I suppose Steve's oft quoted question "Does it make sense?" is more than valid in this case.
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Re: Something to kick around

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:46 am

Bloody Nuisance wrote:Marc Animal Macyoung,

No comments from me on the truth of Mark's claims, but I'm actually on his 'animal' mailing list and it has some good voice to be heard. A lot of truth, wisdom and real-world experience. Highly recommended.

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Re: Something to kick around

Post  BN on Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:52 am

No argument there mate.

If he really writes the Paladin press books, and they are not ghost written, he is a great author with a very engaging style. The stuff he says makes a lot of sense as well.

I just don't believe the hype. For me he doesn't come across as being exactly what he says he is. I think anyone can talk a good game. I could if I wanted to. But I think Marc's badass former streetfighter persona seems far fetched, and the few anecdotes in his book generally don't ring true for me.

Maybe I am wrong. I don't know.
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Re: Something to kick around

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:15 am

I've read Marc's book and I was a member of the animal list for about a month. I found some good points in his book but also found an equal amount of stuff I personally didn't agree with. It was a little difficult for me to read because it didn't contain anything that drew me in where I wanted to read the next page. Not a bad book and his style of writing is good but I don't completely see the street fight in it.

As for the animal list...well I thought it was very "tame." I also found it to be sort of "traditional karate in wolf's clothing."
"BUT" all in all I think the whole website as a whole is worth exploring and better than some of the crap out there. There are a lot of good points that kind of make up for the rest.

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Re: Something to kick around

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:53 am

arthur meek wrote: What am I trying to say? Watching some of the street fights portrayed on You Tube can bring home the reality; it's often all there, the atmosphere, the violence, the rabid anger that can be just around the corner from people of all sizes and both sexes. A bit scary but enlightening.




I think that even watching street fights on youtube doesn't completely drive home the tension and kaos; at least for me. I think everyone has their own reality and that is why fighting has to be based on principles but then personalized. What YouTube doesn't show (for me) is the complete surroundings nor does it tell the who and why which could have a definite impact. Steve talks about going into fights without fear and actually thriving on the fight. Personally I always had fear,,,it is a very stressful and fearful experience as well as very "unknown" (a lot of unexpected shit happens). "BUT" at the same time it is something you kind of do anyway, even though you have a choice. There is a certain amount of enjoyment or sense of "this is me and this is what I do. For me it was always a bit scary because people always got hurt bad. But the again I kind of looked forward to it.

But there were always those guys who seemed to be able to kick the crap out of anyone (or five) but never trained, they smoked and drank but somehow were just natural bad asses. Were they ever afraid? I can't say but I would have to think (through my experience) that everyone is. Steve IMO is an exception rather than the rule. But he is smart enough to try and figure a way to pass on his ways or figure out how he does it. Just know that it isn't something that comes as easy as practicing a kick over and over. Changing your mind is tough and fear can quickly turn to panic if you can't control it and while fear isn't bad, panic is deadly...for you!

The natural born killers I knew seemed fearless but they weren't stupid either. That is why I think they had fear also...like me. There were many times when they too knew that "this is no time to be so brave" and they were running for cover right along with me!! In my experience the tension and frenzy can be so thick you can cut it with a knife. Unknown fighters come out of nowhere to join the opposition, weapons appear...there is surprise, deception (that's a biggie) and what doesn't come through in the videos, the sounds and smell. The point is, for me, to deal with all of it and just know it as your job. Don't let it fill your head and clutter up your thoughts. Like Superman hearing the whole world all at once with his super hearing. He has to filter these sounds out as he lives his everyday life otherwise he'd go crazy! It's just part of it. But this only comes with experience....or at times ignorance...I've seen that also. (a lot of times these guys end up dead sooner or later though).

I have often wondered (recently again actually) about these guys who never train but can fight like hell even against multiple opponents. Were they afraid going in or not? For me I loved to fight and would start one if nothing was happening. "BUT" once it got heated I felt the fear factor and the uncertainty. It didn't stop me from fighting, but I was aware of it being a fearful situation. Sometimes it makes you fight harder.

Tommy

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Re: Something to kick around

Post  Rob Mac on Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:24 am

I've spoken to BN about some of the guys I used to knock about with and often the most game and ferocious were the smaller ones. Don't get me wrong there were some big fuckers around with that mindset as well but alot of these weight lifter types had all the attitude but nothing to back it up. One of my close friends in paticular most have been 9 stone and around 5 ft 6 but would batter people twice his size. He didn't look the part either and people who didn't know him would try it on because of this. He did however go through hell with his old man who used to batter him till Paul fought back with a monkey wrench he used to keep under his bedat the age of 15. He never trained for fighting although he used to play football to a good level and was pretty fit. He was one of a few fellas from our area who were small in stature but would fight like lions when it kicked off using anything that came to hand. It's not the size of the dog. Cheers Rob.
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Re: Something to kick around

Post  BN on Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:28 am

Tommy,

If it's not too personal, what were the circumstances of your fights? I mean was it mostly because you like to fight or did you have to growing up?

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Re: Something to kick around

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:16 am

Bloody Nuisance wrote:Tommy,

If it's not too personal, what were the circumstances of your fights? I mean was it mostly because you like to fight or did you have to growing up?

Dylan

A little of both. I grew up in a survival of the fittest neighborhood and there was a definite pecking order. I guess I learned to keep reassuring my spot and at the same time with an eye for the top. I had a love hate relationship with fighting. I wanted it and I liked to fight but at the same time would fear it as things became unraveled in an unknown situation. I made mistakes with guys I could have easily whooped, and had before, and got my ass kicked for my mistake (over confidense).... another lesson learned through experience
I was always a gang member and fights were serious even with friends! So yes "I had to fight" and you had to at least be pretty good otherwise your life could be pretty miserable.

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Re: Something to kick around

Post  arthur meek on Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:36 pm

[quote]For me I loved to fight and would start one if nothing was happening
Bloody hell tommy p and I was going to invite you to a barbecue.

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Re: Something to kick around

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:43 pm

Well when there's food around I can be distracted Laughing

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Re: Something to kick around

Post  steve morris on Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:31 am

By the way, I wasnít even thinking about Geoff Thompson when I wrote that. Iíve said before that Geoff has made a tremendous contribution to martial arts in this country by giving it a greater reality base through feeding in his door experience. I donít agree with everything Geoff Thompson says, but then again I donít see eye to eye with a lot of guys. There are very few out there who I respect in what they do. I respect Thompson.

But equally I have to note that in door work there are a lot of non-fighting elements. Thereís verbal work, thereís team work, thereís the fact that youíre on duty and youíre expecting to have to deal with shit. Itís not the same as a ring fight, and itís not the same as a challenge fight, a streetfight, or the guy coming through your front door or jumping you in a car park. So the experiences of doormen are only one part of the picture.

In the same way, just because a professional soldier has seen combat, it doesnít necessarily qualify him as an authority on a fight with the fists or anything else that comes to hand.

When evaluating information, youíve got to be really discriminating.

And one other thing before I forget.

Terry OíNeill and the late Gary Spiers are often used as examples as to the effectiveness of karate, but unlike a lot of people who make this claim, I knew these guys. I really knew them well. And although their karate skills were as different as chalk and cheeseóTerry a highly successful KUGB competitor and technician, and Gary by his own admission no real technicianóthe one thing they shared in common was an inherent violence. Their tools were very different even though they were both doing something called karate, but it wasnít their tools that made them effective. It was this destructive violence, and the fact that they got to express it on a daily basis in their professional lives.

When I talk about karate not being effective, Iím not talking so much about the tool (or skill) but the practices by which you build and hone the tools. Terry and Gary possessed tools that life circumstance and genetics had handed them, and they developed them on the door. What they did in the dojo, in my opinion, was secondary.

If you are practicing karate, for example, you have to find the equivalent within your training of doing door work or professional fighting, to then be able to say karate at a personal level is effective. In most dojos where there is some form of fighting, the fighting remains Ďsimilarí. Itís not dissimilar. And itís restricted in its parameters. This is insufficient.

And hereís a point. Terry confided in me that he was disenchanted with karate training. Most of the higher level karate guys who came to visit me said the same, including Dave Hazard. As Iíve said before, he even said after meeting me that his trip to Japan on the JKA instructorsí course had been a waste of time.

Bryson on another thread said that I have an aversion to TMA and that I donít like gis. Itís not that simple. I donít like the way the martial arts are practiced. I look at it, and it needs a reality check. The reality check is fighting. Not pretend fighting. Not tournament fighting. Not fighting other karate guys. But having some way to test yourself that will work for you if youíre not a doorman, etc.

And you donít have to get beaten to a pulp to have this experience. There are ways of doing it.

Thatís what Iím on about, and a couple of karate guys, Rob Manning and Arthur Meek, you guys will know what Iím talking about.

Whether youíre in a gi or out of it, you need to have a reality check. It must go beyond drilling. It has to be fighting.
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Re: Something to kick around

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:01 pm

steve morris wrote: Terry confided in me that he was disenchanted with karate training. Most of the higher level karate guys who came to visit me said the same, including Dave Hazard. As Iíve said before, he even said after meeting me that his trip to Japan on the JKA instructorsí course had been a waste of time.

It's amazing. I can see the trainees of today just looking for some fun exercise spending years in karate but why do (did) so may others? I suppose Terry and Dave began karate looking to fight. Back then they probably got what they were looking for. I know I did in the beginning.
What happens afterward? Brainwashing? complacency?

We become subservient to the masters and looking back I feel embarrassed. There were many times I was a little let down by the so called "masters" ...unimpressed. Yet I still wanted to believe they were special. I would look at them all with the same question in my mind...even for my instructor who I actually liked...could I kick their ass in a "real" fight? Yet I stayed and made the best of it. Train in class then go home and do it my way....foolish. Now I look back and feel ashamed that I became so attached. Is that what these gentleman are stuck in? They are still doing the "Shotokan" thing and "that" (Shotokan) has become the biggest joke.
What keeps them there? I have to think it is what kept me there...just knowing better. Yes sensei that is a great technique,,,wink, wink. I could say it was a waste of time, but I'm not sure. While I did waste a lot of time, I also stayed diverse enough to actually learn something. But if I could do it over...

You're right Steve, everyone is learning to fight (or thinks they are) from so called experts who never had a real fight. Everyone is buying used cars from a vacuum cleaner salesman.

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Re: Something to kick around

Post  Nick Hughes on Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:13 pm

everyone is learning to fight (or thinks they are) from so called experts who never had a real fight.


Hmmm, nothing like a broad general sweeping statement eh? The guys I learnt from all had tons of real fights. I daresay students of Terry O'Neill's are learning from someone who's had at least a couple of real fights. When I went to Steve's place in Horsham to train for the day (in karate) I went on the understanding he'd had real fights. All the students I've trained over the years (more than a thousand) have learned from someone who's had real fights.

Who the faff is 'everyone?"

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Re: Something to kick around

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:13 pm

Nick Hughes wrote:
Who the faff is 'everyone?"

I was referring back the comments at the opening of this thread.

steve morris wrote: On the other hand, Iíve known hundreds of martial artists, some of them respected masters of Eastern traditions who religiously practice the minutiae of their respective disciplines every single day and are assumed (as masters of such traditions) to be the possessors of a mindset equivalent to that of a natural born killer. Their explanations of the warriorís mindset are accepted without question. Yet this is all quite irrespective of the fact that these masters couldnít fight, period, let alone take on a natural born killer type and win.

I was referring to "everyone of these people"...more or less a general statement. Obviously there are those who have great instructors but as Steve was saying, some have already had the natural instincts or the fight in them. For them "any' training would work. But most traditionalists follow blindly the traditional dogma. Many of the so called "great Japanese masters" couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag unless it was a point competition. But because they have the "look" many follow them as if they were the second coming.

So in traditional karate such as Shotokan (Terry and Dave's style?) the everyone is the ones learning from the top guys. The supposed great and knowledgeable ones. The fountain from which karate springs.The Yahara's (laughable), the Kanazawa's (a joke) The Asai's and the Nakayama's....con men.

This is how "I" see it. I'm not saying it's right or wrong...just my view. I don't ask anyone to listen or follow. I only speak and do for "me."
People read and either agree or disagree. I don't care to try to convince anyone of anything.

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Re: Something to kick around

Post  Rob Mac on Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:22 am

Nick, if you could have your time again, would have still trained in Karate? I'm very confused about the whole Karate thing, the only time I've seen it 'work' is when (like the clip I posted) it looks like something else. What is the 'real' Karate? If it is the stuff I've seen on 99% of the clips etc I've seen it is worse than bad, it's dangerous, lulling people who don't know better into a false sense of security. If it's really more like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01_kQd8pOus then what happened? We've had Karate guys, dan grades, train with us and to be quite honest it's shocking. They just haven't got a clue how to use their bodies and frankly get mullered in sparring. That is a small percentage(tiny) of kARATE-kA. Am I missing something?
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Re: Something to kick around

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