Posting (again)

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Posting (again)

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:14 pm

Hello again Steve!! Very Happy

Sorry to be a pain in the as (arse?) But I just want to make sure I'm getting this. As for my shoulder question...I can probably figure it out so don't get to concerned with answering. If you find time to get around to this question it would more than likely take care of that anyway. After reviewing the videos I think I figured it out anyway. But let me get this straight. HERE you show posting off the lead leg. The lead (left) hand comes off of the lead (posted) leg as does the right punch which can be followed by the right low kick etc....The head moves left. Everything seems to be posted off that lead left leg. I'm understanding this as chasing down your opponent or chopping little chunks out of him....keeping him on the offensive etc. It appears that this is all off the lead leg post which in this case adds to tactical positioning as well as striking.

On the other hand you also have this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-G8GTo7hCo

Which shows a different head movement and posting. Here you move the head in the direction of the strike. The post moves back and forth (left leg/right leg) as required. Now the strikes aren't all off the lead leg post. Now the left punch posts off the right leg with the head moving to the right (the directionof the punch) and the right punch posts off the left leg with the head moving left. The head leads the punch.

I am interpreting this as two different approaches based on the "same" principle according to the needs of the fight at a given time. The first is a chasing down so to speak while the second could be more meaningful blows as well as positional advantage.

I'm now working on adding a startle. When posting on my right leg, throwing the left punch (head moving right ) dropping the body down and to the right as I remove a chunk from my opponent; I am trying to push against the floor with the left foot to add to my rotation to the right (startle).

Tommy

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Re: Posting (again)

Post  MikeB on Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:50 am

My two pence.....


They are just different tactical positions.

Posting on the lead leg with a slight twist of the upper torso sets up your lead hand. Releasing this shot naturally sets up a rear-hand punch which, in turn, sets up for a rear round kick, all without the need to alter your posting leg. You still shift your weight, you just do so around one post. This essentially allows you to 'quick fire' three shots in one, minimising any time in which you are left 'open' to a counter-offensive strike.

I've found that posting on the lead leg works well when working counter-offensively (i.e. the guy is coming towards you, and you are meeting him), as you have that left hand set up in such as way that it appears as though your 'red zone' is smaller than it actually is. As soon as he steps in range you can smash him with a 3-shot combo.

However, obviously, if you just posted on your left leg the whole time you would be a predictable fighter, and you might also find it quite hard to move!!

If you are seeking to pro-actively enter his red zone in order to strike, you naturally have to look for an opening. By moving your head while looking for this opening, you are not only creating a moving target (which is naturally harder to hit), but also changing your posting leg, so as to be able to dynamically take advantage of any opening you find / create. I think Steve describes it is ‘feeling’ the guy out… you’re just moving around and seeing how he reacts, seeing what is available…. My movement in general is quite poor, but I think I understand the concept.

You can also create more power by switching posting legs as you punch (as in the second clip). Not really sure of the reason. It just intuitively makes sense.

In terms of the ‘startle’, I think you are misunderstanding the concept. What you are describing sounds more like a set-up for a posted punch. You're clawing forward with your left foot as you claw back with your right... basically creating a twisting motion that translates throughout the entire body, culminating in the release of your left hand.

This is different to a 'startle' punch / effect. If you look at the second clip, you see Steve demonstrating the 'startle' in some of his strikes. As I understand it, the ‘startle’ punch is discrete to a ‘posted’ punch. You actually leave the ground when you jump the punch in – you’re not posted at all. Steve can clarify, I’m sure.

Similar to you, I’ve been trying to work the ‘startle’ into the finish of my punches, so I suppose you could say that it can be set up as part of a posted / whip punch. Personally, though, I prefer just jumping it from a pretty centrally-posted position… Whatever works for you, I guess.

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Re: Posting (again)

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:54 am

Thanks Mike...it makes sense and is in line with what I was thinking.
As for the startle thing....that was something extra that "I" was trying to add/modify for myself based on his principle. I was adding a little extra drive to the clawing action by sudenly pushing off the leg....it is only an experiment.

Thanks again, your post cleared my thoughts on this and it seems it was the direction I was thinking.

Tommy

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Re: Posting (again)

Post  Ken Fortunato on Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:17 am

Let me see if I can shed some light on this by explaining the scenario by which this topic came up.

Tommy was watching me on the bag the other day and commented on my weight distribution on certain shots. I was working the axis of the opposite leg from the shot, i.e. delivering a right hook to the body, while transferring my weight to the left/lead leg, then immediately rotating and transferring the weight to the right/rear leg and delivering the left straight punch to the upper chest.

At first I thought I may have misunderstood Steve’s explanation, but after discussing this with Tommy, and reading your (MikeB) take on this, I believe that it is situational. Meaning, I can see how it would be advantageous to step down on the left/lead leg with a quick left (jab) and then deliver a right hook to the body by reposting over the same leg and pulling the hook through.

This may very well be the topic of my first “video post”. The words don't seem to paint the picture.

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Re: Posting (again)

Post  MikeB on Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:48 am

Tommy P - Good that you came up with the clawing motion off your own back. Shows you are on the right track! It's not something I would have thought of myself... just picked it up off Steve. I find it quite hard to put into action as it requires you to be rooted to the ground. For some reason I find it far easier to jump my shots in, but have been trying to implement this as well.

Ken - Agreed that 'words don't paint the picture'. It's hard to get concepts across in text form - even in video to be frank. One of the things I gain most in terms of training with Steve is witnessing him in action. I don't have a photographic memory, in terms of being able to watch a series of movements and being able to replay them in my mind and instantaneously copy them, but every little bit helps.

Sounds like you are on the right track, in any case. Many people don't even rotate around posted legs when punching (they stay centrally posted and just rotate their hips). I've found that simply using your body diagonally (i.e. from the shoulder down to the opposite hip, across the torso) gives a lot more power on its own. Punching at angles (another Morris tip) also helps... i.e. I don't worry if I'm not punching perfectly straight in a piston-like manner.

The only issue with throwing hooks as you do (shifting weight from left to right foot and back again) is the time it takes... It's like the rotating door analogy that Steve uses - you're giving the guy an opening to get inside and potentially knock you out. Is it worth sacrificing power in order to reduce the chance of being KO'd? I guess that is dependant on the situation.

Personally, my head does not stay in one place when I am posted on my lead leg. I will throw the left (that is already loaded up) and my head will move towards the centre of my body, then it will drive back down to the left as I unload my right, so there is a certain amount of momentum coming from that.


Anyway, let's wait and see what the big man says!

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Re: Posting (again)

Post  Ken Fortunato on Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:10 am

MikeB wrote:The only issue with throwing hooks as you do (shifting weight from left to right foot and back again) is the time it takes...

It doesn't, or at least shouldn't take any more time. I'm throwing the shot anyway, but it's "how" I'm throwing the shot, or "what" is "actuating" it.

On the other hand, I could be completely wrong! Laughing

MikeB wrote:Anyway, let's wait and see what the big man says!

Sounds good.

It's nice to see people getting involved. Cool

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Re: Posting (again)

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:20 pm

MikeB wrote: Many people don't even rotate around posted legs when punching (they stay centrally posted and just rotate their hips).

That's a good point. I have used the example, in the past, of hanging from a bar with your feet off the ground. Just swiveling your hips doesn't create much power without grounding. Therefore you need to get bodyweight into the action. Many trainees, especially traditionalists, always key in on "hip" movement. The hip is only a link in the chain, IMO, and as you stated, can't be used alone.

I've found that simply using your body diagonally (i.e. from the shoulder down to the opposite hip, across the torso) gives a lot more power on its own. Punching at angles (another Morris tip) also helps... i.e. I don't worry if I'm not punching perfectly straight in a piston-like manner.
This also makes a lot of sense and is something I'm now working on. I find I'm able to get more body behind the punch without being directly in front of my opponent. In other words, needing to have my body directly "behind" my fist.

The only issue with throwing hooks as you do (shifting weight from left to right foot and back again) is the time it takes... It's like the rotating door analogy that Steve uses - you're giving the guy an opening to get inside and potentially knock you out.

This is true... one thing should lend itself to the next (positionally). If you are set back on the right it takes time to move back to the left. It becomes a one-two movement. But if you are posting correctly and moving the head properly to "lead" the way I think you can get power as well as be positionally sound as far as movement. Again, as you say, dependant on the situation (what your opponent is doing).

By posting on my right leg while throwing a left punch and dropping my body I feel I can strategically move outside my opponents lead hand and then be able to come back with an uppercut to his ribs while moving to his left side.

Tommy

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Re: Posting (again)

Post  steve morris on Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:37 am

Tommy, that bag's too hard. I know you dragged it in from outside and it was soaking wet. Take the stuffing out and repack it with old rags or old towels, or if it's beyond repair then invest in a new one. I picked one up on e-bay, they're not expensive.

The reason why I'm saying this is that your bag is discouraging your follow-through. Especially at our age. I used to have one that was rock-hard at Earlham Street and it claimed a lot of broken hands. I would never use a bag like that now.

Now here's my tip. Just get into hitting the bag again. See it as a man. Don't worry about how you do it. Just whack it.

An example of that is in the Fight Training Modules, which I know you have. Look at the third disc where I'm working out on the bag from 1980. Short intervals, high intensity work, lots and lots of power and combos. Just whack it. Then go back and maybe analyze it.

I'll try and pull this clip off the DVD and get it up sometime, to show how I used to throw shots into the bag. I still go back and look at it sometimes for inspiration. Those were my big punching days--and that was a real hard bag but I had bag gloves on and I was conditioned for it. The main thing is you want to be able to really let go on that bag. And every time you're hitting it you're busting a rib or taking his head off. And that's why you need to do it short duration, high intensity. Take a 20 second break and do it again until you've completed your workout.

And here's one more tip and this is a general one for everyone. Always finish on a strong note. Don't go away from something feeling like you've failed. Even if you have to abandon something that isn't going very well and do something else that you know you can do well, do it. Walk away from the training session with an impression of success and satisfaction that you got something out of the workout. Don't walk away with your head down.

Cheers, Tommy.
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Re: Posting (again)

Post  Guest on Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:47 am

steve morris wrote:Tommy, that bag's too hard. I know you dragged it in from outside and it was soaking wet. Take the stuffing out and repack it with old rags or old towels, or if it's beyond repair then invest in a new one. I picked one up on e-bay, they're not expensive.

Funny thing... That "is" a new bag! it's just as bad as the other one, If you look in the right corner of my clip you will see the old wet bag. I use it for tossing and ground and pound. After a year and a half it still leaves wet marks on the floor and is still like concrete. I bought the new bag (cheap) that I have hanging and from a few inches below the Everlast label, it is like a rock and hurts like hell, you just can't penetrate it (unless I'm getting weaker Shocked ).
I've actually hurt my shin on the lower portion of it.


An example of that is in the Fight Training Modules, which I know you have. Look at the third disc where I'm working out on the bag from 1980. Short intervals, high intensity work, lots and lots of power and combos.
Yes, I've watched that bag work...good stuff.

Thanks Steve

Tommy

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Re: Posting (again)

Post  steve morris on Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:52 am

OK, Plan B. Get yourself a bazooka and blow a hole in it...

Well, empty the damn thing and see if you can loosen it up a little.
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Re: Posting (again)

Post  Guest on Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:52 am

I might just look for a softer bag and take the one I have now one to work and use it on the floor (hand held for low kicks). ...we'll see. It's just that I don't like light bags (under 100 lbs). Maybe before I do anything I'll remove some stuffing until I get another bag. I think I have been getting Arthritis in my wrists over the past year or so and the bag is irritating it. If I try to "push" someone hard in the chest with my palms, my wrists scream.
No biggie with the bag thing....I'll work it out! (always do Very Happy )

You know what did this to my hands/wrists...feet and elbows? Karate!!!

Tommy

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Re: Posting (again)

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