video roll call

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Re: video roll call

Post  Chris Jones on Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:28 am

thats me in me avatar

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Re: video roll call

Post  Chris Jones on Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:30 am

and this is me getting a good clogging:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OCYAPXfg54s

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Re: video roll call

Post  steve morris on Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:38 am

There you go, thanks for that Chris.

Keep 'em coming guys.
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Re: video roll call

Post  Bryson Keenan on Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:54 am

hi steve,
now i get where u r coming from. great idea to make it interactive; i will try to get something up in the next week with that in mind.
wouldnt mind general comment on my previously posted clip tho (see link in my last post; i cant cut and paste as i am writing this on my phone!)
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Re: video roll call

Post  peter skillen on Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:16 am

some old footage here but i am putting some hi def stuff together for my new web site. www.academyts.co.uk

http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

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Re: video roll call

Post  Rob Mac on Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:24 pm

Steve, I'm going to get some stuff done wed night. The clip I posted wasn't a great example of our stuff, but you can see the kind of stuff we train for, it's not pretty but there you go. Cheers Rob.
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Re: video roll call

Post  Shinigami on Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:49 pm

I'm the odd one out in this regard as I do not own a digi cam, neither does anyone I know and I'm in no position to buy one otherwiseI'd jump at this chance.
It really is great reasoning behind the whole video idea, I'll tryto see what I can do as soon as I can.
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Re: video roll call

Post  Ken Fortunato on Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:02 am

Steve, I should be able to get some video up by the end of the weekend. I didn't want you to think that I was ignoring the request. Cool

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Re: video roll call

Post  roadkill on Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:31 am

Here are 2 clips of me teaching a small clinic at a local school. It's not very exciting but I will try and put more together soon that will show me doing rather than teaching.

This is a great Idea Steve and I do welcome any feedback.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=OaPAIALTYwc

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5gJdO5er_So
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Re: video roll call

Post  steve morris on Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:28 am

Bryson, about your clip.

Iíve studied the ways by which force can be generated by boxers, Muay Thai fighters, the various schools of Chinese martial arts as well as those of Okinawa and Japanónot to mention tennis players, javelin throwers, discus throwers, shot-putters, baseball and cricket pitchers/hitters, footballers, and even guys who throw the Frisbee for that matter. If anybodyís been throwing or hitting anything, Iíve studied it. And they all in some way use the body to sequentially or simultaneously (or both) generate momentum from the body and transfer it to the active limb so as to increase the velocity of that limb and the subsequent impulse into the target (i.e., follow-through). So, the double hip, wave punching, double impacts, etc. are nothing new. These concepts used in martial arts are simply a re-adaptation of very familiar dynamic movement patterns that are seen across many sports.

The problem, though, in many martial arts is that the application of this concept becomes very stylized. The interpretation is often over-simplistic. I can see the reasons for that. Within systems, the idea needs to be expressed and taught in a very stereotypical way. This simplification might contain the principle of how the body might be loaded in a particular plane and how its potential energy might be released into a target at a specific angle, range, etc. However, the principle is often lost in teaching a motor-oriented movement pattern. The dynamics are often telegraphic, non-repetitive, and reliant on the assumption that the single strike in isolation will conclude the fight. We know thatís not true.

These one shot double hip wave form double impact moves could work in a pre-emptive strike, and they might even work within the fight itself. But my experience has taught me that nothing can be assumed (other than the worst). In other words: youíre going to miss. The shotís going to have no effect. Youíre going to be countered. Or youíll be attacked before you even get your pre-emptive strike off. And thatís just the beginning of what can go wrong.

The principles of any dynamics you teach have to be applied by the individual from any position including the ground, from any level, angle, range, and within a time frame thatís realistic to the fight. Thereís no such thing as an optimum way of loading, unloading, or following through. All you can understand, or teach, is the principle of how those components work. Itís more a case of why youíre doing something, than how. A lot of people get caught up in the detail.

When it comes to instructing people, thereís a tendency to begin instructing them before theyíve even moved a muscle, rather than letting them see what they can do. In all likelihood, some of them at least will be using natural movement patterns of loading and releasing without any instruction, just like throwing a ball or putting a shot. The instructional 'tip' of the dynamic comes in after, and it must be one that will enhance what theyíre doing already if theyíre moving naturally. Rather than substituting purely mechanical processes for the natural movement thatís already there.

And if they're not moving naturally because of say a karate background, then it's even more important not to put them in that mechanical mode. Better to get them to throw a ball at a wall to remember what they need to do, and get them out of their karate mindset.

These processes, the way by which the body dynamically loads and unloads are imparted by the process of natural selection. Thatís how we survived as a species. These movements are reflex behavioural patterns that are hard-wired, which you adapt to situations.

Whatever process of movement you arrive at which is suitable for the individual (not so that itís uniform throughout the group) has to be tested within some form of conditional fighting or dissimilar training. Otherwise youíre never going to know how to miss, or get punished for telegraphing your shot, or learn how to repeat a shot if necessary or switch to another shot in the same dynamic process of movement.

Itís been argued that the use of the foam pad or boxing mitt held to the chest helps the recipient of the blow to feel the impact so that the striker can get a feedback response. But these feedbacks are often questionable, and you get the feeling more than occasionally that what the guyís saying is what the deliverer of the blow wants to hear. I.e., ĎI felt a white-hot ball of chi pass into my body.í

When using the foam pad/mitt held to the chest, there is often a push effect on the follow-through, so that the guy goes flying back. Again, thereís a lot of compliance here, and the blow is struck at an angle where the person often is unbalanced. And there is an implication, that if I can knock you back or make you run back, then if I hit you the effect is going to be devastating. But pushing and hitting are two different things. Youíre not looking to displace the opponent, but to destroy the target, internally if itís the body, or if itís the head, to cause violent rotation. Thatís the thing what puts him down. Doesnít send him back. It drops him right in front of you.

Thatís why you need to be able to angulate the body and make your deliveries from different angles. Because thatís how you penetrate the body without the opponent being able to absorb the shot (i.e., running back).

I would say that the clip contains elements that are relevant, but they need to be extended in a more dynamic, combative way. If you did that you would naturally end up with something resembling boxing, Muay Thai, etc. If you engaged the students at different levels and gave them all the principle, then they would all be going away with the principle and applying it according to their personal needs in a realistic situation. And you can never predict what thatís going to be, thatís why the role of the trainer is to show the student the principle and be able to show the student how the principle can be applied in many different ways, and then leave it to the individual. Give him his head, and let him work out how heís going to use the information.

Another thing that I often see on these types of clips is that the hip movement is performed in isolation. Often in total isolation to the rest of the body. Thereís no involvement of the head (which plays a key role in the development, release, follow-through and direction of a force), thereís no involvement of the rest of the body at all in a dynamic way. To release power requires total body movement. Thatís mass velocity--mv. The bigger that mv is, as the limb tapers, the mass is converted to velocity, so the more youíre able to put into that limb, the more you get out. Iím not seeing the rest of the body going into that free limb. And Iím not seeing a drive-and-brake system so as to again, create mass velocity, that, when you put on brakes and reverse the process, force is exponentially increasedóbecause with a drive-and-brake system youíve now got two equal and opposite actions culminating in this release.

So this focus on the double hip exaggerates one small process out of a multitude of processes that contribute to producing destructive force. And when you extract one process and overfocus on it, not only does it become exaggerated and often a parody, but itís done at the expense of the whole. And the whole is much more than the sum of its parts.

Itís good to see youíre doing angulation in there.

For the other readers, a lot of people get hooked into the details of these dynamics. Thereís a thread going started by Tommy P, and really what you need to be thinking about is what are you trying to cause or prevent? The Ďhowí comes through practice, good direction, and testing. When I give you a tip, donít concentrate on the tip. Concentrate on what youíre trying to do to the target. Let the tip go in, and then forget about it. Let your subconscious sort it out. Remember, I can punch effectively from any position and I can post on almost anything. Some positions are better than others, but once you understand the principle of interconnecting the body to load and release power into the target, then even in a bad position you can get off a pretty good shot.

In a fight, you donít know what position youíre going to end up in when you get your chance to hit him.

And remember, a move is only valuyable if the dynamics of it contribute to its repetition, or allow you to easily switch to another move. The body is designed so that one actions loads another, and you want to use that natural facility. Like in running, where one stride loads the next, you want to be hitting with a natural repetitive flow. You can interrupt it as you like, but thereís always this feeling of continuation and reloading.

Watch Thai fighters and watch boxers. They are using natural body dynamics in a combative way. Theyíre the ones I look to and analyze with regard to striking, so even if what you do has a karate-derived stylistic flavour, itís essentially going to look like boxing/Muay Thai. If it doesnít, then the natural dynamics are lacking.
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Re: video roll call

Post  peter skillen on Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:56 am

will be posting a few videos of my class in training tomorrow.

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Re: video roll call

Post  steve morris on Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:44 am

OK let me clear this up. This thread is for people to post their clips and if they ask for feedback, then I give the feedback. If you want the feedback from somebody else, do it privately.

I don't want references to other clips coming in. This thread is about you guys and what you do, and if you ask for it, I'll give you my advice on what you do. Full stop.

So I've taken some recent comments down. Nothing personal. Let's just keep this professional and focus on the people who are using this site.

I don't want it to turn into a slagging match.

Thanks.
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