Mixing RBSD training with sport fighting systems?

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Mixing RBSD training with sport fighting systems?

Post  Igor_R. on Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:16 pm

What do you think about the mixing training of RBSD with sport fighting (like Boxing, Muay Thai,..)? Sport fighting is yes limited by roules but gives you a good conditioning. In other way in gives you a false attitude.
Or is better to do only RBSD trainings? In RBSD are no sparrings so is difficult to cultivate the adequate combat condition.
Opinions?

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Re: Mixing RBSD training with sport fighting systems?

Post  Lee Morrison on Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:45 am

Hi mate
the first thing that needs to be in place, is your motivation to train in the first. What is it that makes you want to train? If you are training within the realms of Combatives or reality based Self Protection, then the chances are your motivation is geared towards being able to look after yourself in the street. So I would suggest that you make that the main focus of what you do.

Having said that I am a big fan of cross training, particularly in systems such as Boxing, Thai and some kind of Grappling. Such things will help you develop certain physical attributes far and above what the Reality based stuff alone can give you.

Bottom line is, everything can give you something, functional strength training will make you functionally strong, plyometrics and Olympic lifting will make you explosive, boxing and Thai will give you a good delivery system and understanding of body mechanics, grappling with develop tactile awareness as well as getting you used to manhandling and getting manhandled.

Boxing sparring will teach you all about hitting a moving target and what its like to get hit, Thai will teach you all about mental toughness and going through limitations. All these things will make you a better combat athlete whether its for the street, the mat or the cage period!

In regards to sparring, understand that sparring is a reciprecal exhange, conversly to that a real fight, that is if you want to win in such as situation, is a ONE SIDED BEATING how the fuck can you spar a one sided beating from a sparring perspective? you can't.

Now some people will say that's a cop out, how do you practice under non-compilant conditions then? My answer to that is of course simulation and scenario training with padded assailants, safety measures and a non-compliant theme.

When we scenario train, the padded subject is trying to knock you out, thats his goal, now you need to make your game work and when you make it work you look at adding additional variables and stress as a progression.

The end result is confidence in what you do. Think of this as no more than 20-40 percent of your overall training, the crux of what you should be doing lies in working the fundamentals until you own then.

Now you should supplement this with the boxing and the grappling etc, and you should engage in free-grappling and boxing or Thai sparring as a part of that training. Now you get the best of both worlds, just understand that any round of sparring or any grappling match that you take part in, should be thought of only as a drill, a drill designed to get you used to working with a non-compliant opponent, who is trying to hit you, trying to choke you.

This is great training, cause it helps you develop the attributes you need to fight within the confines of these rules. It will give you timing, mobility, sensitivity, heart, mental toughness and the will to do well, all those things which are extremely useful as a supplement to becoming Combatively efficient.

Just remember that conversely to that, what I want for the street if it must go physical, is the complete and utter elimination of the threat and that relates to a ONE SIDED BEATING not a reciprecal exchange.

A sparring match is my turn, your turn, my turn your turn.

A beating is MY TURN, MY TURN, MY TURN FINISHED!

Get the idea bro?

Hope this answers your questions
Peace...

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Re: Mixing RBSD training with sport fighting systems?

Post  mickeybluejeans on Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:50 am

know thy enemy don't know who said this but isn't training in other arts a good idea so you can know your enemy?

say you're working the door and a local golden gloves champion walks in, he starts a bit of trouble, wouldn't a knowledge of boxing ( and the golden gloves preferred fighting style) help you out?

or am I waffling.

Mike

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Re: Mixing RBSD training with sport fighting systems?

Post  Igor_R. on Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:55 am

Thanks for the answer!

I think that adding some sport fighting (practice) to the RBSD traning will enhace the practicioner physical condition. Yes, maybe sport fighting give you also some false confidence (because you are limited by roules), but also practice (RBSD, Combatives,..) without "physical contact" give you some false confidence (because you are not familiar with physical contact).

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Re: Mixing RBSD training with sport fighting systems?

Post  jimmyfatwing on Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:01 pm

and don't forget that the sport fighting / competitiveness can be fun Smile

And no....before people jump on me I'm not saying that the combative/rbsd isn't, but it's a different fun (IMHO)
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Re: Mixing RBSD training with sport fighting systems?

Post  Line of Eld on Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:06 am

If I spar someone according to MMA rules or Muay Thai rules, then my intent is for it to be as one-sided as possible.

I want it to be a one-way street, because like most people I do not like to be hit in the face or slammed.

The problem being that if my opponent and I are anything close to evenly matched then it is not feasible to expect that I am going to necessarily have it all my way. This might not square with my plan of 'throwing out a beating', but unfortunately such is life.

Until I can reasonably hold my own against quality opponents in symmetrical matches, then I think it's not necessarily productive to imagine that if the rules were gone I would fare any better against multiple opponents. Yes, I might have the use of artifice, weapons, or a greater range of techniques - But so does the opposition.

I appreciate this will not necessarily be a popular opinion on this board, and it's not directed specifically at anyone who has made comments in this thread, but I have to wonder if often the reason that many people in the RBSD community turn their noses up at sports-based delivery systems is because they are not mentally willing or physically willing to compete on an even basis with another person, and risk losing.
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Re: Mixing RBSD training with sport fighting systems?

Post  Lee Morrison on Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:57 am

I agree that before any kind of situation starts, you both have an equal opportunity to employ what evers necessarry to win. The whole idea in relation to Self-Protection in the street is avoidance and escape, ego shouldnt enter the equation.

In which case if an individual has now wrongly selected me as a potential target, it is because he feels he has a good chance of winning. In terms of the artifice you speak of, assuming I know how the enemy operates, as I should then it is I that has the best chance of making deception work, particularly if he's, as I said misread me.

Bottom line is whoever gets off the first significant shot and keeps motoring is most likely to be the one who comes out on top. If I successfully employ whatever means fair and foul to get there first, then trust me its game over.

If I lose initiative, well all I can say is, he'd best be as significant as I would be in one big hurry.

In regards to fear of losing, this clearly shows what the majority of martial artist's (NOT ALL, and again not specifically directed at anyone) are missing, if you got the right mindset, as you fucking should have, then fear of losing don't come into it, cause in my mind I've already WON any physical altercation I find myself in.

Regardless if thats feasable or not, I will beleive that, in that moment for the duration of the incident, therefore my belief is operational. The mindset must be to do anything to win, in a self presevation sense, then if I dont win, well I should survive.

Understand I talking from a self preservation perspective, not a matchfight perspective. If I was to actively seek out someone to fight, at a pre-arranged time or something like that, (outside of a sporting context)then I would do whatever I could to ensure success, in short everyone can be beaten, if he's a better match fighter than me then I will wait for the c**t in a Mack truck and run the fucker over simple!

From a sparring perspective I have clocked up my own fair share of rounds in Thai, grappling and boxing from the age of ten to the present day and I have used each and everyone of them to forge and impose my will. So I know this subject from both sides of the coin my friend.

Just be clear if you are aiming to be Combatively functional, then in my opinion that starts and ends with the mentallity, bottom line I won't be thinking or worrying about what the MEAT puppet i'm facing is doing or gonna do, I'm only thinking about what I WILL DO and how I will feel after i've done it!

The outcome of any such scenario has already been pre-decided by a higher force than me, all that leaves is for me to take part!

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Re: Mixing RBSD training with sport fighting systems?

Post  Line of Eld on Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:29 am

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Lee.
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Re: Mixing RBSD training with sport fighting systems?

Post  Igor_R. on Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:23 pm

Practice only sport fighting could be misleading for a real-life street fight situation, but in my opinion is very good to strengthening someone strikes, timing, endurance,.. How Lee also said: "Such things will help you develop certain physical attributes far and above what the Reality based stuff alone can give you." Also sparring could be: my turn, my turn, my turn, finished ;-) Depends on mindset. Of course the limitations remains.

Training only with pads, focus mits,.. maybe will not be enough. Training with a live person in front of you is probably the best choice. Not always (or all) we have the opportunity to train with bulletman. So, maybe the sparring is one way to improve someone physical attributes.

However there is clear difference between Self-defense and Sport-fighting. One of the main difference is in the mindset. But someone who has highly developed physical attributes for fighting (through sport fighting confrontations) with addition of the RBSD knowledge (and enough practice) will develope greater abilityes than who is training without the physical confrontations with other persons.

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Re: Mixing RBSD training with sport fighting systems?

Post  Lee Morrison on Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:02 am

The last point you made, refers to my suggestion of working within both fields to get the best of both worlds. This is what Modern Combatives training is all about, look at anyone who's anyone is this field they all do it.
Peace...

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