ZEN DO KAI YOUTUBE

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Re: ZEN DO KAI YOUTUBE

Post  Nick Hughes on Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:22 pm

Stu...I did mention this somewhere on one of the threads but I'll hash it out again.

Unlike today where you can whip out a cell phone, PDA or handheld camera and get crystal clear Hi-def footage in a 2nd, and where CCTV cameras abound - we were in an era where the only cameras people had to film were very expensive super 8mm jobs.

After shooting the footage you had to send the film off to a lab to get it developed to even know if you had any footage.

Obviously therefore cameras were as rare as rocking horse shite...nobody took them to the door, (we'd have busted them if we saw them Very Happy ) and nobody took them to regular classes. If you ever did see one it was at a demonstration or occasionally a grading.

As a result the film footage that made it to you tube is 25 year old technology of demos which, by their nature, are designed to show off some acrobatic, and/or weapons wielding bollocks.

Even nowadays, when we do have access to cameras in phones etc., I don't have people coming to class filming anything...not sure I'd let them if I did and I'm very careful what I do when on a door when there are cameras around.

The regular classes were very heavy contact (remember that Oyama and the hardcore contact that Jeff Menapace just mentioned that even MMA guys though was "nuts" quote unquote was a 2nd dan under Yamaguchi when he broke off to start Kyokushin). Bob Jones was a black belt under Yamaguchi's Australian representative so very similar contact levels i.e. full to the body, "touch" contact to the face all done bare knuckles and almost all of the brown and black belts worked the heaviest doors during the skin head era in Oz and beyond.

Gary Spiers was also a Bob Jones student (who fled the country after being hunted by the Melb cops for half eating some Army guys that fucked with him) who followed up doing Goju in Japan before lobbing in England.

Hope that answers the question...

Nick
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Re: ZEN DO KAI YOUTUBE

Post  Stu Hughes on Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:30 pm

I see. However, I still find it strange that Bob Jones felt it necessary to have all this in demos. Surely if it's not how you actually trained then the gullible folk you were luring in with katana play wouldn't have lasted long enough to be of any use? Unless you used them as high-turnover human punch bags for your doormen... That doesn't seem to be the case with the oldest footage of the goofy kata and no-touch sparring at the start, it looks very much to be part of a training session.

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Re: ZEN DO KAI YOUTUBE

Post  Nick Hughes on Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:40 am

I don't think anyone knew any better (re the demos)...everyone broke bricks, headbutted wine flagons, wielded weapons, broke boards on fire etc.

I do know for example we always talked about how we'd come in to a shopping centre on a Sat morning, and do the above, and not sign a single person up.

The fat Tae Kwan Do guy, with the equally fat students, would do a demo of a few forms, and some basics and 30 people would join immediately.

We figured the average person in the audience looked at us as if to say "that's incredible, but I could never do it" whereas they would identify more with the fatties and think "hell, if he can do it and have a black belt so can I."

(Interestingly enough the national association of professional martial arts instructors over here paid for market research and found that the average school advertising photo of the guy doing the flying kick into the bad guy caused the potential client to identify WITH THE GUY BEING KICKED!!!

All their ads are now pics of mom, dad and the two kids standing side by side in gis in nothing more than a stance.

We didn't have any such market research in the day.

As for the sort of person attracted to sword not being able to hack the training...I did. Very Happy so did plenty of my mates. Why do you assume someone attracted by the flashy stuff isn't going to have the cojones to hack the training?

Regarding bringing people in as cannon fodder...very much so. At one point there were lines out the door for people trying to join...Bob told me once they used to sign up about 300 people per week during the peak of the world wide boom. Where to put them? Simple, hundreds of pushups, situps and heavy contact sparring right from day one got rid of enough that you made room for the next batch.

As a result, the ones that made it through were hard core.

I talked to Lofty Wiesmann once about much the same thing. He told me how selection in 22SAS was incredibly physical back in the day to the point where people perished during the tests. Years later the got the shrinks involved and they came up with ways to test their mettle by screwing with their heads as opposed to just their bodies.

The goofy kata was a personal kata which means that film footage was of a test. In Goju and ZDK you did your black belt test and then became a probationary black belt. You held that rank for six months to ensure you didn't get all big headed about being a black belt.

Once you passed the six month mark you did your full shodan test which consisted of an essay on your thoughts of the style and training etc., your favourite strength kata, your favourite technique kata, a personal kata and an explanation of five killing techniques complete with medical implications.

I never saw anyone ever do their personal kata ever again outside of the test...(why would you, as in class we trained as a group) so once again, clearly test footage and not a regular class.

Hope that helps clear it up

Nick
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Re: ZEN DO KAI YOUTUBE

Post  RoryQ on Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:43 am

I must admit these clips did surprise me too, based on what I had read about ZDK before seeing them. I can appreciate that a certain amount of the demos of breaking etc are just par for the course considering the era, but ... the sparring and ring footage...?

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Re: ZEN DO KAI YOUTUBE

Post  Stu Hughes on Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:17 am

I think I've got your jist Nick. You were in reception of a body of both fighting techniques and party tricks for demonstration, and you treated the two separately? Not dumping said party tricks because it was the norm and was seen as a tool to get people interested?

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