low round kick

View previous topic View next topic Go down

low round kick

Post  melvinfferd on Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:24 am

hi steve,

you wrote recently on another thread ...

"... and itís part of that clawing action for kicks both in the kicking leg and the support leg. Iím working flexors and extensors within the movement. Sometimes I focus only on one or the other, but you can actually focus on both."

id like to discuss this in relation to your style of low round kicks (shown here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhualei4EK8)

often i hear people say something along the lines of, "just swing your leg like a baseball bat". however if i interpret what you are suggesting correctly, you are actually incorporating a pulling action within the striking limb. at training today i tried to implement the idea and experienced a completely different feeling. on impact i pulled with the hamstrings at the same as extending the shin into the bag with the quads. i guess conceptually its as if you over-shoot with the knee, fractionally, in order to bring the clawing action into the equation. is that what you are referring to in the above quote? or am i off track?

thanks for any insights you may have.

regards,
simon

melvinfferd

Number of posts : 397
Localisation : Tokyo
Registration date : 2006-10-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: low round kick

Post  steve morris on Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:28 am

You don't engage the flexors on the release of the shot, you engage them sometimes when you're loading the shot. If you look up on you tube I've got a clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-G8GTo7hCo

and you'll see that I wind up the leg by clawing back a little bit behind me, like I was kicking up dirt. That puts a bit of bend in the leg and I then use the rest of the body to drive out that fold like cracking a whip. I also, without a preload, sometimes just take the leg from whatever position it's in and just kick it. THat's also on the clip. The first I throw, the second I fire.

Within every action, there's a pull and a push. But it's very very difficult to break this down and put it into words. I think you've misinterpreted it, and I'd need to see you do it. It's easy to show, and if you watch the clip it's quite clear.

If you want a simple way of looking at it, when you walk you're not only driving with one leg but pulling with the other, and this process keeps alternating. You always look for the pull and the push, the coupling of forces, because if you can do both you get more power.
avatar
steve morris
Moderator

Number of posts : 293
Localisation : UK
Registration date : 2007-08-01

View user profile http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: low round kick

Post  melvinfferd on Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:21 am

thanks steve,

back to the drawing board i guess.

melvinfferd

Number of posts : 397
Localisation : Tokyo
Registration date : 2006-10-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: low round kick

Post  melvinfferd on Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:59 am

steve,

have you often used the low round kick to good effect, outside of the gym? what type of reactions have you got with it?

against untrained individuals, or those not trained in kicking, it can be devastating. however against higher level opponents i would guess its a lower percentage technique. for those only interested in self protection would you rate it as a highly recommended strike to develop?

heres a recent mma fight with a well known thai fighter. he throws a lot of leg kicks in the match to surprisingly little effect, even after 3 rds.

http://www.dailymotion.com/cluster/sport/tag/MMA/video/x3bh7t_malaipet-vs-kaleo-kwan_sport

thanks

melvinfferd

Number of posts : 397
Localisation : Tokyo
Registration date : 2006-10-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: low round kick

Post  mrmuaythai on Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:07 am

Hi Melvin and Steve , hope its ok to jump on board Very Happy

i was wondering about lowkicks too Steve , i have always been taught to step across when delivering , but i dont see anyonedoing this , is it wrong ? or " bad technique " ?

liekd the clip too , i have a question about the bag , do you have it actually on the floor at the bottom on purpose ?

Cheers , again , sorry to butt in silent

craig
avatar
mrmuaythai

Number of posts : 670
Age : 48
Localisation : Under a rock
Registration date : 2006-12-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Ernesto Hoost

Post  Luciano Imoto on Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:11 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydyh349yN_w

The king of Low Kick Twisted Evil
avatar
Luciano Imoto

Number of posts : 107
Age : 44
Localisation : Brazil - S„o Paulo city
Registration date : 2007-08-07

View user profile http://www.aikidoimoto.org

Back to top Go down

Re: low round kick

Post  steve morris on Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:45 am

Simon, the success of the low round kick is down to a lot of factors. The fact that it didn't work in this fight doesn't invalidate it. If you look the clip Luciano put up of Ernesto Hoost, he's dropping good fighters with the kick. It's just the way you do it, and when.

In that same way, just because a punch doesn't work on a particular occasion, that doesn't invalidate the punch. The fighter in this case seemed to be rushing the kick, and kicking more into the lower leg than the upper region of the leg. Seemed to be afraid of the takedown. Plus, the other guy could very well be conditioned, or there just wasn't enough finish on the kick.

One thing about the round kick that comes out, and I saw it a lot with the OCFM seminar I did at Tony Pillage's in September, as well as with Tony Pillage's members and those who attended my courses at Steve Rowe's, is that the round kick that they seem to be stuck with is one where the foot points forward and they kick upwards. They don't angle the kick down into the leg, and the front foot doesn't create an angle for the direction that the body weight needs to travel in order to support the kick. And the head doesn't move in the direction of the force.

If you're going to use the analogy of a baseball bat, then you don't hit with the baseball bat going up into his leg, you hit him with a baseball bat driving down into his leg, and if you look at Hoost you'll see that on a lot of his kicks. Even the ones to the head are sometimes coming down.

I'll be putting up a couple of clips that show what happens if you kick upwards and he blocks with the upper portion of his shin. These clips are not for the squeamish, as I read on Shikon that some of the members felt ill when they saw them (Which surprised me, because it is after all a martial art. You are supposed to hurt people).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGYCH-TG-Xg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pD0KFO9ZQw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l7pCeHUzR4&feature=related

Simon, with regard to a self-protection context, it depends on the situation, your competancy with the kick, and your opportunity. As you know, I never say 'these are the techniques you should use' as if the technique itself is going to save your life. It's your ability to perform it in a live situation that matters. That's why, no matter what the kick is, it needs to be tested in dissimilar and adversary training, and not compliant training. It's your kick, and you've got to test it.

Even in similar training, like Muay Thai, you've got to test it. You can't just assume that it's good because you hit a bag with it or it worked in a drill or it seemed to work in a demonstration.

Craig, stepping across rather depends on the width of your stance when you start. If youíve got a narrow stance, and you try a round kick from that position youíll be directly in line for a right cross or a left hook. So the trade-off isnít a good one. You need to step out to get the angle for the kick to come in, and to get the momentum of the body for the shot, and to put your head and body in a safer zone.

If youíve got a wider stance, that step doesnít have to be as much. But, to cut the angle, you can do this with a step, a skip, a jump, a hopóthereís lots of ways of doing it. A run. Whole bunch of ways. Thatís what footwork is about; adjusting to what you need to do.

So, it isnít wrong. Itís right.

About the bag: yes, I like it on the floor because guysí legs donít swing. And I like it hard, because guysí legs are not soft. Soft bags encourage wrong skills, and if the bagís swinging all over the place youíre getting the wrong result. Tony Pillage, for example, has got some very friendly bags. Youíre not going to hurt yourself on them, and thatís good for kids, but youíve got work up to a harder bag. And you don't want it swinging all over the place.

Steve
avatar
steve morris
Moderator

Number of posts : 293
Localisation : UK
Registration date : 2007-08-01

View user profile http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: low round kick

Post  mrmuaythai on Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:35 am

Thanks for replying Steve ,
It seems a good idea to have the bag like that due to lack of space too !! like me ! so its not swinging all over the place .

Thanks again
craig cheers
avatar
mrmuaythai

Number of posts : 670
Age : 48
Localisation : Under a rock
Registration date : 2006-12-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: low round kick

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum