Keysi

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Re: Keysi

Post  Mr Nobody on Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:13 pm

I got the following article from Wikipedia for those that are interested.

Keysi Fighting Method.

Keysi Fighting Method is a method of self development and personal growth that uses self defence as a vehicle. It was founded by Justo Diéguez (Spanish) and Andy Norman (English). These two martial artists met on the same path searching for the same goals.

Description
KFM makes use of multiple attacking ranges, with or without weapons. The KFM trademark is the thinking man (Pensador) and thinking man attack (pensataq), which makes use of a tight defensive shape to protect the most precious part of the body, the head, and literally smashes and opens up the opponent for the finish using all ranges of strikes - punches, hammer fists, kicks, knees, and the sharp elbows, all at high, middle and low lines on the opponent.
The shape of the thinking man or pensador represents the unification of the mind and body.
Keysi also translates to 'tornado' (Justo's nickname) and also 'from the heart' - when you see KFM's Justo and Andy in action its easy to see were the tornado name came from. It was featured in the movie Batman Begins after being introduced to the stunt coordinators by Jujitsu world champion Buster Reeves, who was Christian Bale's stunt double for the movie.
In the movie Mission Impossible III, Tom Cruise uses a few Keysi moves. There have been rumors that Cruise's fianceé, Katie Holmes, who co-starred in Batman, suggested the technique, but it was probably just coincidence.

External links
• Keysi Fighting Method
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keysi_Fighting_Method
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Re: Keysi

Post  Peter on Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:07 am

Ricardo's description is spot on

I trained for over a year for 4 or 5 nights per week at Keysi so I can speak from experience.

If you want to be a part of a "family" then its for you but only for as long as you keep paying and buying the T shirts and "supporting" seminars.

I was berated in from of the whole class once for letting the club down and not taking part etc etc etc My crime, for that is how it was treat, was that I didn't pay £60 per day for two days to attend a seminar with someone I had no interest in. I was actually denied a belt at my next grading becuase of my attitude i.e because I hadn't gone to the seminar.

I also made the mistake of questioning a combination. The combination was; trap the punch coming in, punch over the top of the now trapped arm and then drop to floor and hammer fist to the back of the knee. scratch

I must stress that I did not train at Keysi HQ and the club I was at is no longer part of Keysi so my experience may be twisted. However a mate of mine who had paid a lot of money for the instuctor course got npo sympathy at all when he had to miss part of it due to a broken arm. He was told he was letting the side down too and he had forfeited the course and of course the course fee's.

This may not be typical of Keysi but it was my experience.

Pete
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Re: Keysi

Post  Wingit on Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:25 am

Ricardo wrote:I tried it for some months, but stopped as I "didn't get it".

Dito.... overly stylized, over hyped but worse of all over here. I trained it for 1 year, 6 hours instruction per week, plus the personal practice that I also put in but found that I didn't get it at all , some students are able to pick up the very particular way of moving, but not me. I attended a seminar in Glasgow with Justo and Andy Norman, the event was hyped by the instructors, but it amounted to 2 hours of instruction from Justo (whom speaks no English), he didn't show us any of his undoubted skills, without a doubt a big let down, but after the event the instructors were bragging about how good it was, hype ,hype and more hype. Andy Norman was a very nice guy, highly skilled and very approachable.
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Re: Keysi

Post  Richard Grannon on Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:38 am

Keysi also translates to 'tornado' (Justo's nickname) and also 'from the heart' -

In what language does keysi translate as both from the heart and tornado? coz it aint spanish!

Wingit... I like your quote on your sig. -could just as easily be applied to martial arts.

Keysi- sounds like another emperors new clothes phenomena

Even with crappy systems though you can usually take something worthwhile away...?

Did any of you who trained in Keysi think there were some good bits? unique to that system?
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Re: Keysi

Post  Peter on Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:35 am

Well, I once got told off for not losing ...... while shadow boxing.

The logic was that you will lose in a real go sometimes so you throw yourself to the floor while doing shadow and take a kicking off your imaginary opponants before rallying and chinning them all. Rolling Eyes

In all fairness I cannot say if this was typical Keysi but the club was branded Keysi and we were all wearing the T shirts.

As for the rest of it:

Excellent fitness training
It really was good fun with a good social side.
The actual MA side was JKD with a few bits of Kali thrown in when that became all the rage.

To be honest, if you are bog standard SDF knuckledragger you will find most of it laughable but if you are a typical person who wants to "do" martial arts then it will do you no harm and stand you in better stead than not training.

Oh, and you will become rather good at Hubud drills which always impress the onlookers Wink
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Re: Keysi

Post  Socrates on Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:45 am

Peter wrote:Well, I once got told off for not losing ...... while shadow boxing.

The logic was that you will lose in a real go sometimes so you throw yourself to the floor while doing shadow and take a kicking off your imaginary opponants before rallying and chinning them all. Rolling Eyes

That is hilarious!
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Re: Keysi

Post  Garth Barnard on Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:09 am

Peter wrote:Well, I once got told off for not losing ...... while shadow boxing.

The logic was that you will lose in a real go sometimes so you throw yourself to the floor while doing shadow and take a kicking off your imaginary opponants before rallying and chinning them all. Rolling Eyes

Peter, surely you're not serious? scratch
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Re: Keysi

Post  Peter on Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:50 am

I'm afraid I am serious Garth. I would not write something like about anyone's club/style or system unless it had actually happened

I will never forget throwing myself to the floor along with everyone else who was shadow boxing at the time and looking around thinking "Am I the only one who feels bloody stupid doing this?" Embarassed
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Re: Keysi

Post  BXC8 on Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:58 am

Please someone.............Alright I'll do it.

"I am serious...and stop calling me sherley!"

No offence intended Garth Barnard.
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Re: Keysi

Post  Ian S on Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:26 am

Peter wrote:Well, I once got told off for not losing ...... while shadow boxing.

The logic was that you will lose in a real go sometimes so you throw yourself to the floor while doing shadow and take a kicking off your imaginary opponants before rallying and chinning them all. Rolling Eyes

Presumably that's a film-related thing too? The hero always has to take a bit of a kicking at some point in the film, before rallying & chinning them all. So it sounds like Keysi is perfect at doing its job -- that is, being a martial art that looks good in movies.
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Re: Keysi

Post  Richard Grannon on Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:29 am

they are really trying to shoehorn in the "capoeria style, roll, kick and get up" thats been blue tacked to the system !

hey, it looks cool! Cool and making yourself fall down and get up and continue to shadow box is great for cardio... in my MMA class they keep making you sprawl and get up quick during shadow boxing for the same effect

i bet all the speedy strikes improve your hand to eye and cooridination too, no?
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Re: Keysi

Post  BN on Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:19 am

Hi,

I've never trained Keysi, only read their articles in MAI. Got to agree with what some of the other guys have already said.

I NEVER once understood the point any of their articles was trying to make. The articles never really seemed to have much of a point, and most frustratingly, never actually told the reader anything concrete about the Keysi style.

I always had the impression that the articles in MAI were simply one or two page advertisements.

Wouldn't really be fair too be too harsh on the style as I have never trained it, but the photo sequences, and the behind the scenes footage on the Batman movie just made the style seem weird.

I kind of get the impression that Keysi was created in order to be "different" from what everyone else was/is doing. That would explain some of the more whack things in the articles.

Different for the sake of being different. Not different as in better or more efficient.

I'm sure there are Keysi guys who can really rock n' roll. But there are guys and gals in every style who can fight. Doesn't validate the style.
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Re: Keysi

Post  Wingit on Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:34 am

richard grannon wrote:
Keysi also translates to 'tornado' (Justo's nickname) and also 'from the heart' -

We were told that it meant ......friend (aahhh nice eh!)

Wingit... I like your quote on your sig. -could just as easily be applied to martial arts.

Tar very much Mr Grannon in that case I will continue to buy your dvd's lol

Did any of you who trained in Keysi think there were some good bits? unique to that system?

There is nothing of their system that I would use in a reality based altercation...hmmm! (Have you seen the move that they call the pine tree? They expect this to be used on the street? ughh!)However, it is my opinion, and mine alone, when I say that if you want to run a money grabbing cult, or at the very least the local branch of a money grabbing cult then the petulant pair that I the dubious pleasure of training with showed me how.
1. Be ready to grab the money and run
1a Try to sell off as much of the silly looking training garments as poss
2Have a class favorite, make sure that the are fully accesorised in kfm gear!
2a. Let the rest of the class know that this person is your favorite.
3. Openly invite your favorite to your house for din dins etc etc.
4. Make sure that you shower your favorite with praise.
5. Make sure favorite always wins in sparring, have any excuse ready if they don't.
6. Totally overstate how amazing and awesome everything is from their yearly Spanish chum fest to having to shell for your monthly dose of humiliation.

Yes the KFM modus operandi, it really is different from all the others you know.
I may contact them see if they want to use the above line as their motto!
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Re: Keysi

Post  Peter on Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:13 am

Ha! So very true Wingit with the one exception, 3 should read:

Allow your favorite to make you dinner and let him think he is the privileged one!
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Re: Keysi

Post  Wingit on Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:27 am

Peter wrote:Ha! So very true Wingit with the one exception, 3 should read:

Allow your favorite to make you dinner and let him think he is the privileged one!

Peter, obviously your instructor had paid more than mine so was more advanced in the area of, constant student development, evolution and world domination. lol!
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Re: Keysi

Post  Ricardo on Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:45 am

Wingit wrote: Have you seen the move that they call the pine tree?

Yes, it is a ground move that you can use to change position or deliver a knee that involves a near vertical headstand.

(Is that the one?)

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Re: Keysi

Post  Wingit on Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:17 am

Ricardo!

The pine tree ! That is indeed the one that i'm on about, why you would put yourself in such a situation in a street fight, I have no idea. Also the Jab, Cross, hook ,overhand, slap ,uppercut combination, starting of with the jab, adding a strike and done from 3 levels. I never once drilled one individual strike, there was no breaking each component down and making sure that each student could effectively throw i.e a jab, just so long as you were able to throw the combination, then that is fine by them!
Oh well each to their own I suppose, live and let.....blah blah blah!
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Re: Keysi

Post  total combat on Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:03 pm

Hi all I just wanted to post a reply to Wingit's comments. to . . From what I remember of this guy, he was extremley rigid in movement and found it hard to pick simple techniques up. We now teach a broad spectrum of martial arts including Keysi. I agree with other peoples comments that it really depends on the individual how they will handle a street altercation regardless of what martial arts they train in. We have always welcomed training with different systems and instructors. If you read this guys comments again, he's got a lot of anger issues, from what I recall we never done anything bad to him.

Anyway on the subject of Keysi if it's your bag then that's cool but you should try and learn from everyone and every martial art. When it comes to self protection, then you need as much ammunition as possible.

(edited to remove personal,insulting remarks)

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Re: Keysi

Post  Richard Grannon on Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:13 am

If even half of wingits accusations are accurate he has every right to be angry
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Re: Keysi

Post  total combat on Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:39 am

You don't even know anything about us so don't follow blindly without doing your own research.

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Re: Keysi

Post  Guest on Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:43 am

Hi total combat, and welcome to the forum.

People on this site have had direct involvement with Keysi, and have now posted what they feel.

How about countering their actual claims instead of making personal attacks? Otherwise you'll end up supporting their case instead of your own.

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Re: Keysi

Post  Wingit on Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:47 pm

I just read your comments about training with people in Glasgow in Keysi. Who the hell do you think you are slagging us off on the internet? Who are you and why don't you have the guts to say this to our faces. I think I can probably guess who you are. Any guys who came to the Justo/Andy seminar really enjoyed it, so not only are you a coward but a liar. If you have a specific problem with us, then we would gladly discuss this with you. But if I think it is who I think it is, then you are a loser anyway. And if I remember pretty crap at martial arts and never had a street fight. so you are in NO position to lecture anyone. So don't bother posting any more of your crap unless you want to say it to our faces....very brave on the internet are you not?

Here is a pm that I have received from Totalcombat. Apparently I have anger issues? I think that you'll agree that this attitude is hardly one conducive to the free flow of ideas and opinions , further more, coming from someone claiming to represent the Keysi system , it is highly disappointing, and only strengthens my opinions. However I am prepared to accept that as it was sent to me a 10.30pm on a Saturday night then there may have been alcohol involved.
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Re: Keysi

Post  Garth Barnard on Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:51 pm

I think this thread topic has probably seen it course now. Time to move on.

Cheers,

Garth.
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Re: Keysi

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