Woman fight

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Woman fight

Post  Luciano Imoto on Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:50 pm

Hi Mr. Morris,

I found this Youtube´s video clip featuring Mixed Martial Arts fighter Satoko Shinashi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf9W9luyxHw&mode=related&search=

What do you say for anyone who thinks women cannot fight, or should not be martial artists?
And how the Morris Method can be usefull to a woman, even if she are not a Professional MMA Fighter like Ms. Shinashi Neutral
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Re: Woman fight

Post  BN on Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:16 am

Hi Luciano,

Don't know if you have had a look, but Steve talks about training women in the letters section on his site. The title is "Women and Self Defence "(if I am not wrong).
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Re: Woman fight

Post  steve morris on Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:13 am

I think here’s a case where we might be seeing different things. When I looked at it, even when I saw her walking towards the ring, I straight away said, ‘it’s a fix.’ And as it developed, it was obvious immediately (to me, anyway) that the moves had been worked. The moves themselves were great, but there’s no actual proof that they would work in a real fight because there was compliance on the part of her opponent.

What you’ll get in these kind of fights, and it happened in Pancrase and many of the Japanese entertainment fights, is that you’ll get a free exchange going on, and then they’ll hit a ‘work move’ either for the entertainment value of it, or as a finishing move to a fight whose outcome has already been decided. You’ve got to remember that the Japanese fight entertainment business is controlled by the Yakuza.

Anyway, to deal with your question as a whole, I took a few minutes to pull down some clips that do show women fighting, at different levels and in different contexts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWFaUwjIySM&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oju0gn4AjEM&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=qcGzoQKVCyI

So obviously, women can fight. Women have competitive minds just like men. I can remember a woman in Reading where I used to live who used to regularly take on men outside the pub and win.

Looking at the two sporting clips (and there are many more examples on you tube if you want to go and look for them) you see women competing as athletes. Gina Carano is not somebody you’d want to mess with. That’s gold standard. And if women were training, personally I’d be encouraging them to aspire to be like that.

But look at the streetfights, too. Because those are the ones you’re more likely to meet, if you’re not a competitive fighter. And as trainer, I want to instill that violent mindset and then add the skills on to it. And I would want to be able to replicate the example of a violent, aggressive female as an aggressor/dissimilar training partner and as a means of testing and adapting skills that were being worked in the gym. You need to make your technique work against that woman. In the ring, it’s obviously different, but on the street anything goes.

--Steve
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Re: Woman fight

Post  Luciano Imoto on Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:07 am

Very well.
In streetfight´s case (not only against another PMT woman, but man, gangs and another 'monsters'), I teach and encourage my wife and female students to carry and use some "extra" weapons. Preference by blades and improvised tools like hair´s needle for example. Of course, the correct mindset and alert state precede all this stuff...
First I teach to fight with naked hands, so add weapons.
In countries like Brazil, the streetfights (include the threat of raper and the common domestic violence), ends with death or serious injuries with psychological trauma.
So, cold steel abilities can equalize the diference in size and even in skills.
What are yours advices about this?


Last edited by on Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Woman fight

Post  Dennis Jones on Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:18 am

So, cold steel abilities can equalize the diference in size and even in skills.
What are yours advices about this?

...Don't get caught! And only if you are morally justified.

Regards Dennis

Ps I hope you don't mind me jumping in Steve.

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Re: Woman fight

Post  Luciano Imoto on Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:26 am

You are welcome cheers

Cut off the 'threat of raper' are morally justified to you?
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Re: Woman fight

Post  bikergirl on Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:31 am

Sorry to jump in on this but...

Apart from legal issues (in this country you'd be in more trouble for cutting/stabbing the attacker than the other way around) what do you suggest to do with these weapons? Do you suggest to actually hold them at the ready? I've recently watched a programme about crime in Rio and yes, in your country I probably would but here, you would have to conceal the weapon, so it wouldn't be so easy to use it if you were attacked.

The other question I have is if you actually teach them how to use those weapons? I have no idea about how to use a knife so I'd be more likely to be handing them a weapon to use against me.

And how the Morris Method can be usefull to a woman
The same way as it's useful to a man? scratch
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Re: Woman fight

Post  Luciano Imoto on Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:41 am

Hi Rollergirl,

I think is better to wait Mr. Morris´s advices about this questions.
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Re: Woman fight

Post  steve morris on Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:12 am

I think I better get in here quick and throw my three pennorth in for what it's worth!

I think the thing is, it rather depends on your environment. Brazil and Britain are very different; but you might be living in a neighbourhood in Britain where you feel you need to carry something as an equalizer.

There are obviously incidents where somebody carrying a knife has turned out that they got killed by their own knife, either because they didn't know how to use it or they didn't have the will to use it.

One good substitute for a knife might be a metal telescopic baton. Terry O'Neill showed me one in the 70s and in the right hands it would be highly effective. One thing you don't have to worry about cutting yourself, which is a problem with a knife if you're not experienced with one. The baton has a good natural grip and legally, I don't know but I'd guess it would be more defensible in court than carrying a butcher knife in your bag!

But again, you'd have to test it out in realistic scenarios. Very realistic. Against single and multiple attackers, some armed and some unarmed. I think Nick Hughes carried out an experiment with a stick versus a knife and found out that the stick (which could be substituted for a baton) was more effective. I don't know whether that was down to the man or to the weapon, but I'd say that the baton would be a really effective tool. It's what I'd carry if I lived in a violent area.

In Nairobi and Benghazi, I always carried a knife. Not because I was afraid, but because that's part of the culture.

I don't want to say more about my personal experience in this department. So please don't ask!

There's one more thing for now, although I'll probably think of more later. THe mindset needed to bash somebody with a baton is quite a bit different to that needed to stab or slash somebody with a knife. It's still violent, but I think you're more likely to be able to bring yourself to do that than the other, if you're not normally inclined to be a violent person. The weapon won't do you any good if you can't bring yourself to use it.

I'll be answering more about knife work and the use of live blades in practice on another post. Meanwhile, feel free to discuss amongst yourselves. I'm outta here!

Steve
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Re: Woman fight

Post  Nick Hughes on Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:31 am

But again, you'd have to test it out in realistic scenarios. Very realistic. Against single and multiple attackers, some armed and some unarmed. I think Nick Hughes carried out an experiment with a stick versus a knife and found out that the stick (which could be substituted for a baton) was more effective. I don't know whether that was down to the man or to the weapon, but I'd say that the baton would be a really effective tool. It's what I'd carry if I lived in a violent area.

Just to give credit where it's due...not my experiment. I attended a force on force training seminar where we were paired off with mis-matched weapons. It's something I've used since at my own seminars and with my own students. Bar one time, the baton almost always is victorious and the main reason for that appears to be its superior reach. Also, the one time the knifer won it bears mentioning SHE was a woman and her opponent was a man so there is a very real possibility that there was some reticence on his behalf to go all out against a member of the fairer sex.

As always, if the knife guy cons his way in close and your baton is stowed you're back to needing empty hands again anyway.

Nick
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Re: Woman fight

Post  Dennis Jones on Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:44 am

I suppose Nick that's what it's all about 'if the guy can get in close to you.' In the stabbings I've seen, that's what has happened. I suppose it's quite logical, if you're pissed off enough to stab someone, be sneaky and do when it's not expected!

I've got some old camcorder footage where a guy, outside a night club where I was running the door, gets out his car with a sharpened screwdriver. He goes after this other guy; I'm filming and his screwdriver is well hidden. By the way he 'carried himself' I knew he had something nasty up his sleeve so to speak (though I couldn't see it). The victim runs over to us; the aggressor goes back to his motor and puts his weapon back (he bends down slightly) and then gets into his car. A moment later (that's timing for you!), me and two bouncers pull him and his mate out the motor for a 'citizen's arrest!' What was interesting I was the only person that noticed he had a weapon. I proved it to my colleagues when I confiscated the sharpened screwdriver. I also showed them the footage...After a while we de-arrested him and his mate and sent them on their way.

One of the clubs where I worked a guy was killed with a single stab wound to the chest. The blade hit bone and then slid into his heart. Like anything nasty it made me think...Against a knife if you're caught out, the result can be catastrophic.

Regards Dennis

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Re: Woman fight

Post  Bob Wright on Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:33 pm

Hi Steve,

Re: telescopic batons.

In my job I am required to carry one, and on more than one occasion I've stopped a situation just by a flick of the wrist and deplying the full extension. People hear the noise first and then see, as if by magic, this wicked looking rod in the hand. It's good value.......and can do nasty injuries if push comes to shove. Regards.
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