Reality of Violence?

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Reality of Violence?

Post  peterM on Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:58 am

Reading the posts on this forum you might be forgiven for believing that either the posters live in a war zone or are preparing to enter one.

Talk of threat recognition, deception, dialogue, the fence, pre emption, adrenaline /stress conditioning, choice of tools, weapons, multiple opponents, stand up v grappling ,scenario replication and dealing with post conflict legal ramifications suggests that, if not daily, violent encounters occur frequently in their lives and require a sophisticated and
well developed set of skills to survive.

This must be true for some people and for those for whom it is, can you:

a. Spell out under what circumstances all this is taking place? Is it because you work on the door or in law enforcement, frequent clubs/pubs well known for trouble or habitually walk through sink estates late at night?

b. Confirm whether the encounters generally follow what I guess has become the received wisdom about the pattern of these encounters- interview, dialogue, deception and pre emptive strike?

At the risk of tempting fate I have managed to walk the streets of London and other cities in the world for more years than I care to remember and have never been “ambushed” or “interviewed.” That is just my experience. I do not say that it does not happen. I would just like to try to gauge the extent and pattern of it.

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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Atmos on Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:05 am

Regarding that subject, is England THAT violent? I've been reading you guy's posts for years, and in my mind England is like a battlefield! Is it so bad? Is it so dangerous? Or is it just the bars?
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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Slackbladder on Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:35 am

I'll bet money you've been interviewed at some point. Whether you're aware of that or not. I get a couple per year and I'm not socially inclined.
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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Get Back on Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:45 am

Yes Slacky, but those are Police interviews Razz

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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Alan Bec on Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:17 pm

I'll bet money you've been interviewed at some point. Whether you're aware of that or not. I get a couple per year and I'm not socially inclined.

Slacky is bang on the money here.

One of my guys was in London last week and had what he recognized as a deceptive approach i.e. do you know where X is he saw it coming, his adrenalin was triggered and he raised a fence, he said that it turned out to be innocent but what if he had not raised a fence and shown that he was prepared ? that could have been a very different situation.

I am sure that there have been times when most of us have been selected and then de-selected when our awareness became apparent.

A very common phrase " it was probably nothing" but was it.


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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Dave Turton on Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:23 pm

its only NOTHING when it ends OK.. up to then it could be ANYTHING

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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Get Back on Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:02 pm

Exactly right. I never have the time, a light, a spare cigarette, or any spare change. It disrupts their pattern.

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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Lionel on Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:07 pm

I agree with Slacky on this...

As for the part of walking the streets and never been confronted with violence - Congrats to you! But I personally don't find it very strange, since most people don't see someone getting punched down while standing next to them.

Last summer I got a girl away from a pedofile trying to snatch her away in a crowded party... He had explicitly told the girl what he wanted her to do, then grabbed her arm pulling her to him and no one stopped him. The girl was practically crying and yet some adults around her had told her to "be a good girl and stop fussing". They didn't see (why!?!) what was going on right in front of them. I got her away and she didn't leave my side all night, she clinged to me even as I followed her home...

I hope you never have to face violence, I truely do.

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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  BN on Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:03 pm

Well done Lynx.
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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Richard Grannon on Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:22 pm

i think i see where peterm is going with this

i only got into lots of fights by deliberately working shitty doors

the older i get the less i seem to have to get physical when working a door

since changing my attitude a bit the very very few occassions ive gotten involved in fights in the last couple of years is because i chose to

becaue i think im batman (who is way cooler than spidergay) lol!

however this IS a self protection forum so of course its going to sound like a warzone!
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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Jamie Wadman on Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:49 am

I have lived in camberwell, bermondsey, old kent road etc.... all my life and believe me, it is THAT bad!!!!! Out of every 5 times i go out at night even to the shops there is something that could end badly, not always involving me. for example, i often go tto the garage at night (when at my mums) and alot of the time someone is arguing or being thrown out etc...

night life is bad too, i have been involved in too many fights, i have seen hundreds more, and ALL for no reason!!!!!

I have been interviewed so many times its a joke!!!!!
But i'm a good talker!!!!! Twisted Evil
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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Richard Grannon on Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:00 am

mate im living just off the old kent road, stubbs drive!

where do u train? fancy meetin up?

ps he's right ive only lived here for 5 months and im moving very soon, its too much for me!
camberwell? pale
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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Jamie Wadman on Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:09 am

i've just moved to kent, still go there to visit though.
I lived near B&Q.
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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Nick Hughes on Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:56 am

Peter,

Isn't that a little bit like being on a forum for car mechanics and complaining that "reading all these posts you'd imagine that cars just break down all day long ever day"

Right after I read your post I read the following one...

Victim stamped to death for £1.30

An 18-year-old man who denied kicking and stamping a man to death for just £1.30 has been convicted of murder.

A jury at Liverpool Crown Court took less than two hours to convict Scott Wells of murdering Andrew Abelwhite.

Michael McGarry, also 18, of Holland Street, Kensington, Liverpool admitted the murder and gave evidence against Wells in the five-day trial.

Wells, of Princess Terrace, Oxton, and McGarry, who are in custody, are to be sentenced on Tuesday.

The jury heard how 41-year-old Mr Ablewhite suffered dreadful injuries when he was attacked by the two men for the sake of just £1.30.

Mr Ablewhite was attacked as he walked home from the Corner Tavern in Ronald Street, Old Swan, Liverpool, in the early hours of 17 February.

"As he lay dying a small amount of loose change was stolen from his pockets, " said Tim Holroyde, QC, prosecuting.

He was found at 0100 GMT by a passing motorist who saw him lying in the roadway and stopped to investigate.

Paramedics were called and Mr Ablewhite was taken to hospital but pronounced dead an hour later.

A post mortem examination revealed that he had complex fractures to both sides of his face.

"His injuries were typical of those caused by repeated stamping and kicking and there were footwear marks on his head, said Mr Holroyde.

"He had no chance to defend himself once he was on the ground.

"He was the victim of kicking and stamping which was deliberately aimed at his head," said Mr Holroyde.


I wonder if he'd been alive today if he'd been a member of this forum and got his arse to some training/seminars.

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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  SteveC on Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:45 am

I think it depends where you live or travel to in terms of the frequency of encounters.

If you haven't personally experienced violence, witnessed it, or had it effect close friends or family then you have been very lucky. However you only have to look in a paper to read about what does happen.

While my day to day life is far from a warzone, and i purposely keep it that way, i've got back into training because it could only take one violent encounter - there might not be a second chance.

In other words do you wait to take a beating until you address self protection? Do you have to feel helpless in an emergency before you learn first aid?

Steve.
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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Richard Grannon on Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:04 pm

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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Nick Hughes on Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:13 pm

Richard,

That's a rather "Zen" post isn't it? I'll give you my answer

Nick
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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Nick Hughes on Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:14 pm

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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Richard Grannon on Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:20 pm

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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Richard Grannon on Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:23 pm

lol!
sorry pc problems
nice discussing zen with u

was trying to say
i just moved from kensington liverpoolm which is the place u reference

am i just moving from one shit hole to another? lol!
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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Richard Grannon on Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:26 pm

seriously though
i do think bermondseyin london and kensington liverpool are fair reflections of very common "working class/benefit class" areas all across the uk

the city centres that peter originally referenced as never having had a problem walking round could well be safer than the outlying boroughs

i know i feel a lot safer in london and liverpool city centre

drive 5 miles out and its a different story

this is normal across the world though right?
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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Alan Bec on Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:39 pm

Richard,

I quite agree, I grew up in Glasgow and never had any trouble in the city center (in the daytime) but coming from Easterhouse to visit someone in Rutherglen took careful planning and they are not even that far apart god forbid you should want visit someone in Pollock.



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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Dave Turton on Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:24 pm

Not sure what its like now (Maybe Brian S will tell me), as I left in 1985, but getting across various sections of Manchester in the late 70's early 80's could be a bit frought...
What with (just to name a few) .. THE GOOCH, DODDINGTON, CHEETHAM HILL, LONGSIGHT, AND PAUL MASSEY'S LOT IN SALFORD (strictly speaking Salford isnt Manchester).. as well as living just north of Moss Side itself .. with Hulme just across Alexander Road..
Life in THAT Urban jungle was fun..

Two places never to go to .. The Pepperhill, and the Hacienda..

what about it Brian.. what are they like now

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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Dave Turton on Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:25 pm

Oh and Brian.. do you know became of the PIT BULL CREW? and the Noonans?

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Re: Reality of Violence?

Post  Guest on Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:29 pm

Hi mate, I have no info about the Pitt Bull Crew.

The Noonans?

I can say, because it is in the public domain. Damien died in a motorcycle accident whilt abroad, and Dessie was stabbed to death during a dispute over drugs.

Dominic is left. There was a failry recent documentary about him and what is left of his "gang."

Dessie was actually interviewed in the documentary, openly gloating about the amount of murders he has gotten away with. Looks like Karma paid him a visit though. He was dead within days of that interview being taped.

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