Body Language

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Body Language

Post  PaulRichard on Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:17 pm

Hi Lee

There's been some discussion in the Psyche Talk section on body language and it was mentioned that you'd succesfully identified a potentual victim for a TV programme based on his body language.

What was the body langage he displayed and what did you advise him to do to correct it?

Cheers matge

Paul

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Re: Body Language

Post  Nick Engelen on Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:31 pm

Hi,

I am curious for the answer.

I know attackers look for people in victimstate, unaware of their environment.

Perhaps sending signals of inconfidence and fear which are often seen as weakness.

A couple of weeks ago a doorman was laughing out loud when he learned I was a martial artist so I guess being small, wearing glasses and have the outfit of a student makes you look weak as well.

Curious about what Lee will say...

Kind Regards,

Nick Engelen

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Re: Body Language

Post  Lee Morrison on Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:30 am

Hi Paul/Nick
the program you are refering to was call City life Exposed on BBC3.
Basically I was given the task of picking out one individual amongst a group of people, who were wired up to a motion capture rig, similar to that used for animation, where a human form is depicted and projected onto a screen as a series of some 15 dots.

All that these dots depict is the fact that you are looking at a human being, nothing more, no destinction on gender or anything else. These figures simply walk up and down in a triangular formation, first on their own then all on screen together.

My task was to pick out the individual that was most likely (in my opinion) to have fitted into a victim profile, based purely on the body language depicted on screen.

The person in question was again (in my opinion) really quite easy to spot. First of all he took small steps, with no arm movement, was slumped in posture and kept his head down as if looking towards the floor. Everything about his physiology, spinal alignment, pace, body language and demeanour said i'm subservient, please don't notice me!

In short his very physiology depicted him as a victim both to himself/internal representation as well as to everyone around him, external representation.

When it became clear that I had selected the right person, David was a lovely person, he had been the victim of a barbaric assault from a gang a f**king no marks, who set about him with an iron bar as he left a Chinese takeaway in Glasgow, some months earlier for no other reason than they could.

I was then given the task of trying to give him some physical and emotional tips for inproving his situation. I had no more than one and a half hours to work with David and within the first 30 minutes it was clear that transforming him in a physical ability sense, was going to be a difficult task in the given time frame. So we talked about awareness/observation skills/situational control and pre-emptive striking...

but the main focus was on changing his negative physiology into a more confident and assertive body language profile. I targetted his posture by straightening his spinal alignment (making him stand tall) walk at a slightly brisker pace with a confident gait, involving more head and arm movement, looking around frequently along with other principles of general target hardening.

The result was very gratifying, David was then tested 1 week later, again with the same motion capture rig, dots depicting his form on a screen this time in front of 10 street smart boxers. The improvement was measured by the fact that only 2 out of the ten picked David and even then they were not totally sure. Not a bad result considering that all 10 would have most probably selected him a week earlier.

Peace

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Re: Body Language

Post  PaulRichard on Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:16 am

Some of what was described there could quite easily apply to me. I think when you've been a victim in the past it's very easily to fall into the victim state.

Cheers Lee

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Re: Body Language

Post  Nick Engelen on Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:45 pm

Hi Lee,

As Richard says, when you've once been a victim you carry it with you. A lot of us went trough bullying.
Victimstate is hard to break out as your confidence is smashed to pieces, your selfworth and esteem is gone, etc...
How did you turn this around?

Kind Regards,

Nick Engelen

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Re: Body Language

Post  Peter on Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:31 pm

Hi all,

I dragged this one out of the archives a question was asked as the last post which I think is very worth answering. I'd appreciate any comments as I was asked about just this recently and I didn't really know how to to provide much of an answer beyond trying to instill confidence in the person by getting them training
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Re: Body Language

Post  Wayne Harrison on Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:43 pm

Hi Peter, i'd like to give some thoughts on this to start.

It al focuses around training. Though not just physical. Well, it is, but incorprating psychological also. The challeng with a victim state is of course a deep mental one. Incorporating some forms of drills using some of the next factors may help. How long it take for a noticeable effect depends on the person.

visualisation images. Maybe if someone is trained to guide the student in a more perosnal way, it could be specific to a personal event. Course proper training is definitely required for this. In a class setting, going through a guided visualisation in a fictional, albeit emotive scenario, in which the student performs optimally is an idea. Maybe not them defending themselves, but protecting a third party to begin with.

Self confidence statements. Powerful positive words. One phrase i use in a drill is 'I AM READY'. I repeat, students repeat. It gets incrementally louder. Till they are shouting. To articifically move from victim/passive to a more combative mindset i find that it's useful in drills to verbally show agression. It gives rise to a physiological response. Or at least, can help lead to it.

Anger use. Debatable by many of it's uses, and dangers. In a controlled environment, it can give rise to self beleif, and confidence. Not to mention what is required to combat many criminal attacks.

A Key word. in the same drill, at a certain time of high or higher emotion, the student uses a key word. preferably one that is in context. the idea is in th eend they only need to repeat that word anywhere, and they achieve instantly a certain level of combative arousal that they do in training. sure this is all internal mindset i'm talking bout.

Being around like-minded people. This can work both ways with someone with victimstate. In the class if ther'es too much in your face kinda stuff, it may show the fear response in the student. Done within mental safety constrains it may really help. A person can begin to come out of their shell a lot.

Focus. on the drill at hand. goes without saying really.

Then, when all the visualisation, anger, shouting is at it's peak, the students will enact a physical scenario. To me this brings together nicely various required components of a human for combat.

Oh, it's not my ideas these though, i got them from other places. The drills stir up something familar with me, and my students like them. So it's nice for us.

for sure, teaching how to move about day to day, walk, talk, appear, is good. But if someone has a victim mentality, it can still shine through. Go to the core issue. Make the person beleive they can act the way they wish they could. and we all know research shows how good the mind can be as a tool. Once they start to believe...

These are some things i use.

warmest wishes
WAyne


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Re: Body Language

Post  Ade on Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:27 am

Good post Wayne
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Re: Body Language

Post  Peter on Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:53 am

Some very interesting points there Wayne. Thanks for taking the time to post it.
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Re: Body Language

Post  Fraze on Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:08 am

I like the way you mix in mental state conditioning with physical drills. The best training I've done is the stuff that mixes both of these together. I never really thought about how it all fits together though. It just felt right.

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