A question about kicks and kicking??...

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A question about kicks and kicking??...

Post  Gerry Nolan on Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:33 pm

Hi

I am sure many people who came from TMA backgrounds like karate, TKD etc and went into more pratical methods might wrestle with this idea...

I am from mainly a kickboxing background, back a few years ago, I had decent kicks, high kicks, like hook kicks, spinning kicks, jumping backkicks, double round house etc etc.

Then I went into RBSD/km/.combatives style training, and sort of let the kickboxing slip. then I took up thai, learn thai kicks, and as a result these days. I can barely do any of my old nice to look at flashy kicks!

Now, I know Thai kicks are a million times more effective, powerful and useful, but I sort of shead a tear (LOL!!!) that I have allowed my fancy kicks to get rusty and disappear (basically I can hardly do them no more), plus I have not got the time for 30 mins streching routines to keep the legs supple to do these kicks.

Do any of you lads bother to throw these sort of kicks anymore, for vanity, ego, fun or just plain "old times sakes"???

Should I stop being so vain, and thank The God lord I found Muay Thai, and learned a much more effective though less pretty kicking strategy???
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Re: A question about kicks and kicking??...

Post  Nick Hughes on Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:48 pm

That's funny you should ask that. After my motorcycle accident (and now having permanently ruptured discs as a result) I dropped all my high kicks (one of my mainstays in fighting until that point)

Recently I've started playing round with them again in an effort to see whether I can get them back without aggravating the discs and hips etc. The way that seems to be working is just throwing the kicks lightly and not kicking pads or bags with them.

One thing you'll find with any such training is that it will come back to you blindingly fast mate...you have the muscle memory already and it will only be a few weeks of regular workouts to get them back.

Now, the question is are the retrurns worth the effort? For me yes as I'm back on the door two nights a week for a while and a scrap I was involved in the other night after work involved 4 or so hispanics and some of the guys I work with. For you, maybe not. Depends what you want them for (if it's just ego gratification then I'd say no Very Happy )

Nick
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Re: A question about kicks and kicking??...

Post  Guest on Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:17 am

I gave up the high kicks a long time ago, I was pretty proficient and could rattle off head kicks without much problem. I was very fond of the many varieties of the front and sidekick personally, and believe it or not the outer crescent kick using the edge of the heel had a good innings!

These days I stick with the low stuff exclusively, but I have used head kicks on the door, and during the many brawls I found myself in as a young soldier, but it was never my preferred thing as it was for Nick - must agree with him regarding the pyschological effect it can have over a group if you can put one away with a slick head-shot, but I just chose another path and kept 'em low.

Would I be wrong in saying, Nick, that a lot of your leanings toward head-kicks came from your height? I know that at a mere 6'4" / 34" inside leg I have an inbuilt advantage over a shorter person when it comes to getting my foot to such a target, and would imagine kicking someone in the head when your Nick's height is like a groin shot to anyone else!

As far as residual ability is concerned, I find that I can still perform when/if I choose to, without any stretching - in fact I very rarely do any kick-specific stretching these days, if ever - but I feel the 'pull' a little now that's all, especially the day afte!

Nick, do you find yourself adapting the kicks to the different ranges of motion that your injuries have left you with, whatever they may be - a bit like Bill Walllace had to?

Mick

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Re: A question about kicks and kicking??...

Post  Gerry Nolan on Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:50 am

I have a mate, he has about 20 years on the door, and was back 80s world champion kickboxing WAKO, from mu gendo.

Great fast hands, but also could plant a full power fast roundhouse or hookkick on our head in a street situation....you would not even see the KO coming!!! LOL!!

He's 40 now and still can do it.

I did not "fancy" kick for a few years, and last summer I trained them a bit and was amazed after a week or so, they came back so great !!!

I guess if you have time, their good to do, and sure its a good workout too!
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Re: A question about kicks and kicking??...

Post  Jamie Wadman on Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:02 am

i not very good at kicking although i did karate for a number of years, i have always been a puncher.
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Re: A question about kicks and kicking??...

Post  Narcoleptic on Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:15 am

I find some of them high kick can work nicely in training against someone who never trained against them before. So EH sparring someone at the Kali class without previous experience of a kicking art they often work nicely, cause they dont se em coming and dont know how to counter them.

Therefore i think even people who choose not to train any high kicks could benefit from training AGAINST them, to fill a gap in their awareness/defences.

What do the old dogs say to that?

Cheers,

/Narco
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Re: A question about kicks and kicking??...

Post  Ian Harrison on Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:34 am

I still practice high kicks, jump spinning kicks etc. It's just a case of separating in your mind where you might use them.

When sparring in my kickboxing classes I love to kick to the head when I can including jump spinning kicks etc. However, I wouldn't attempt the same things in the street, I would utilise low kicks that we also practice.

I enjoy practicing the flashy stuff as well as the practical and as long as it's explained to people that one is for playing and the other is for reality I don't see a problem. I enjoy training them and it helps keep me supple too!

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Re: A question about kicks and kicking??...

Post  Gerry Nolan on Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:23 am

yes, I enjoy them too, but i do not have time, to allot to practice. I guess its a "nice to have" for me!

If i make a few quid and have to work less, I will be high kicking again!
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Re: A question about kicks and kicking??...

Post  PullupPastor on Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:32 pm

I like highkicks there a fantastic little challenging workout - havent used anything likeum in a real go.

And mine HAVE slipped a bit lately!! Must get back into stretching.....


What was the name of your Mugendo champion Gman??
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Re: A question about kicks and kicking??...

Post  Nick Hughes on Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:48 pm

Mick,

Yes, absolutely...and I mentioned it once on Geoff's old forum before you joined it in a thread on the validity of head kicking. When I'm standing ready to fight against the average 5'10" jackass crouching in his stance his jaw is in line with my solar plexus. Does make it easier.

Having said that I kicked a Samoan monster one night who was trying to blindside me and he was an inch or two taller than me and I've seen Quinny do it more than once and he was about 5'7". It does, as you've pointed out, have a huge psychological effect on the oppo.

The best one I remember is when I came back from Melbourne after working out with Brad Bazely every day for 3 hours a time. His name was the Blaze due to his incredible kicking speed (eleven in 3 or so seconds) and mine were getting close to his. I was back up North at a huge county fair and some aboriginals gave us grief. I shaped up to one like a boxer so he'd watch my hands and I roundhoused him in the head. After his mates carted him away unconscious two cowboys came over and said it was the best left hook they'd ever seen Shocked (They were so convinced they were going to see boxing that they saw what they wanted to...first time I realized how dangerous an eye witnesses testimony can become).

I haven't done 'em for yonks but I still felt a lot more comfortable when I knew I could do them if I had to.

Nick
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Re: A question about kicks and kicking??...

Post  Gerry Nolan on Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:17 pm

Mu gen do champs I trained with...

George Canning jnr world champ in 80s, also european titles.
thats the guy who used high kicks on the door.

his bro David Canning europeam champ

also trained with Gerry Cisco Kidd who world sworld champ in 80s, feather weight or something down there.

a few years back he was going to do a fight for fun, in his 40s, so we did alot of sparring, but he had to pull put due illness.

look at www.worldmugendouniversity.com
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Re: A question about kicks and kicking??...

Post  PullupPastor on Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:28 am

Ive got a set of leggings with "Mugendo" i "borrowed" of my bro - he trained a few years back with Meji Suzuki down in london....


Kept raving about him - i was like "yeah yeah whatever pig "

My brother came back with some fast powerful hands....


Meji can still do the full splits as well....and he also does the healing thing too.....
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Re: A question about kicks and kicking??...

Post  Gerry Nolan on Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:25 am

Mugendo was interesting, cause initially, it was a sort of modified Wado Ryu, karate stance and low hands, were replaced with boxing stance and high guard.

we even did the katas, but with boxing punches, and stance. full karate style grading syallbus with sparring and all. I went to blue belt under this, then we became kickboxng, about 1 year later and I graded to junior blcak belt...was like 15 ish.

then it change into what is esstenially kickboxing. Pedar Mijic from crotia, was a TKD guy with also a few karate, styles, but had trained in boxing too, and trained with some formed russian olympic boxing coach.

he started mixing TKD, and boxing as beat his own 7th degree Korean master in a tournie, much to his dismay..., and though "hey i got something good mixing boxing into this"

later him, meiji,. and george, came together and mugendo was born.

of course, like many good MA things, there was a falling out, in time, and they all claimed to be founders, etc...usualy BS.

George stills teaches, private and semi provate lessons, and I was training on and off with him up to 2004 for years.

basically its kickboxing.

I wonder is meiji style similar or more karate influence.

Georges brother, has a school too and i spent a few years under him mid 90s. kickboxing but with a karate angle, and elements of karate training. drills with partners etc. tough club too, and lots of painful sparring as I remember... you d be crapping yourself when he want "glove up"!

thing with mugendo is it was cutting edge in ealry 80s, moving on from karate, with the boxing punches. IMO it never changed to keep up with changes in MA.

for example legs kicks were not really used much in sparring.

Mugendo means the "unlimited way" so if they followed that tennant it should be like MMA these days!
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Re: A question about kicks and kicking??...

Post  John Skillen on Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:24 am

one day a week full on practising kicks will keep them there loads of drills on the basic solid kicks.
you have got to do it!
I once saw i news report from south africa a few years ago. a big solid guy stopped a car at gunpoint then stuck a front kick through the side passenger screen smashing the window and hitting the guy he then dragged him from the car, the kick was solid. it was a great example of speed strength and balance.
take care
John

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Re: A question about kicks and kicking??...

Post  PullupPastor on Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:31 pm

Mustve taken some power to get through that window!

You could do make a DVD workout program - "kicking for crajacking!" "kicking for better carjacking" etc jocolor


Hi John was wondering when the skillens would get here!! king
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