The IPDTA

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The IPDTA

Post  Coops on Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:39 pm

I don't know if anyone here (apart from James and Nick) have any experience of our training in the IPDTA, but I am arranging a course to be held in January next year. Slavo Gozdzik will be coming over and between us, we will run people through our SD course. We will probably also run the baton and A&R syllabus, time permitting.

On a similar subject - I have been asked to do a Point Shooting course in Devon, some time in November, if anyone is interested. Obviously it won't involve live weapons, but AirSoft and BB - but people don't tend to use real knives when they train either Very Happy The course will be looking at the history of PS, as taught by FAS and Applegate.

I don't know if there is anyone who might be interested, but I thought I should post, just in case there are people who are.

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Re: The IPDTA

Post  jimmyfatwing on Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:46 pm

Hey Coops

Count me in for Jan mate, email me the details as soon as you have them so I can make sure I'm around.

Not sure about the Devon thing Sad Am still looking to get you down south though for some ESDS if I can before 2006 is over with.....we can talk next week on that one!

Guys - some top quality training with Coops & Slavo. Well worth a visit come Jan '07! (IMHO anyway)
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Re: The IPDTA

Post  ManchesterBudo on Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:11 pm

Coops,

Great lesson last week. Is the SD course going to be on a similar theme?
Shooting isnt really my scene but more of what we did last week certainly is. Smile

See you tomorrow,
Ben.

BTW Found a dead nice flat on Glen Eldon Road. Going to sort the paper work tomorrow. Very Happy
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Re: The IPDTA

Post  jimmyfatwing on Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:26 pm

ManchesterBudo wrote:Great lesson last week.

Knew you'd like 'em alien And of course glad you did to!
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Re: The IPDTA

Post  dik on Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:40 pm

Hi Coops,

I'd definately be interested in the Devon thing if its on a day I can make. (Sundays are usually baaaad for me as I teach all day).

Can you email me some more info when available.

Cheers

Dik
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Re: The IPDTA

Post  Guest on Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:36 am

Martin mate,

Devon could be good for me Cool

Anyone else who hasn't had a look at the ESDS syllabus should do so as soon as they have an opportunity - it's well worth doing!

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Re: The IPDTA

Post  Coops on Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:34 am

Cheers for the plugs guys - the money's in the post Smile

Dik - I think the PS thing looks like being on the 25th of Nov, which is a Saturday.

Manchesterbudo - yes the course will be pure IPDTA stuff. I'm actually relieved that you enjoyed yourself last session. I thought our stuff would be too simple and basic for you. Exellent news about the flat - it's walking distance from the de-briefing rooms after training Very Happy Training on Thursday will be similar, but we'll try to develop further if my memory will let me.

James - you will certainly have the details. It's always a pleasure to hit you Smile
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Re: The IPDTA

Post  ManchesterBudo on Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:05 pm

I thought our stuff would be too simple and basic for you.
I was interested in what you thought an advanced self protection technique would be? Especially if we are striving to apply KISS principles.
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Re: The IPDTA

Post  Coops on Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:30 am

ManchesterBudo wrote:I was interested in what you thought an advanced self protection technique would be? Especially if we are striving to apply KISS principles.

Sorry Ben. I was alluding to your skill level. You have practiced and experienced many different disciplines and I simply suggested that you may know all that we were doing here in StAnnes.

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Re: The IPDTA

Post  peter skillen on Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:38 am

Could you give me more info on IPDTA?
What equipment would you need for the course ?
Cheers .peter

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Re: The IPDTA

Post  Coops on Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:51 am

peter skillen wrote:Could you give me more info on IPDTA?
What equipment would you need for the course ?
Cheers .peter

Hi Peter

If you are looking at the point shooting course, any bb and airsoft weapons are good, so long as they aren't kranked up to a 'lethal' level Very Happy

I have two KWA Glock 19's in AirSoft and I have a Kolter version of the Glock 19 in bb, which is quite scary to be honest. The good thing about the Kolter make is there is a resevour in the pistol grip for bb's, which you just drop into the magazine with the flick of a switch. Usually the weapon can carry somewhere between 10 to 20 bb's. This thing carries around 40 bb's. Either way, strict range control will have to be adhered to anyway as these things can injure.

The AirSoft allow for more freedom. All you need is some eye protection (not simply safety glasses as a round can slip up behind the lense). I use goggles. The bb's are light plastic, so lose their kinetic energy fast, but can still sting, so I suggest a sweatshirt or similar.

Having used Simunition weapons extensively, I much prefer AirSoft for dynamic training. Sim still requires range safety as the rounds can be lethal, just not as lethal as a 9mm. Also, they really hurt and can wound, especially the ones for long guns.

I have found that when working with prot officers, the AirSoft allows things to go from empty hands to lethal force, but all in the gym or in any environment which would not be allowed with Sim.

So, to summarise - anyone thinking of coming to play with us should bring eye protection and light body protection, gloves if you want also.
Bring along any AirSoft or bb weapons, so long as you bring something to fire out of them and the propellant. Please don't be upset if I ask to be allowed to peruse the kit - I am simply maintaining safety.

It might be useful to bring along a pair of focus mitts also. I will bring a few sets of them along anyway, if you forget.

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Re: The IPDTA

Post  Tommo on Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:32 am

Hi Coops

Send me details when you have them - sounds great!

Cheers
Steve

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Re: The IPDTA

Post  Coops on Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:37 am

Excuse me sending another post, but I just re-read Peter's questions, asking for info on the IPDTA.

The International Police Defensive Tactics Association is quite well established in Poland and Sweden. We have representitives in many other countires apart from Sweden, where it originated. We do a lot of training in Poland for both security and law enforcement (border guards, anti terror team members etc). To be honest, until recently we didn't dwell outside of the 'official' training channels in any countries - our aim has always been to deliver effective training in the shortest time, be it in unarmed tactics, baton, A & R, knife assaults,or close quarter firearms work, but to LEO's and the like. Until recently we worked as an association - securing funding from the recipient customer to cover just expenses and nothing more - we wanted to be out there helping cops and that was all. My role has altered a little now I've retired, as I provide the training on a private level to forces these days. As you can imagine though, it's still a pittance from local authorities Rolling Eyes

Over the past few years there has been a little interest from civillian sources, mainly generated by a few courses designed for health care workers and lone workers. So, we decided to branch out and let people experience our training if they wanted. It is aimed at people with no fighting skills, who discover that they may need some quickly - maybe they have had a risk assessment done for their job, or they have heard that a collegue has been in harms way.

Our syllabus is short and concise. As I was saying to ManchesterBudo last night after training, although a few of us train each Thursday in the local YMCA, I don't see it as a particularly formal class, nor is it something to spend a long time studying. It has no 'advanced' techniques and I'm sure that many of the folk here would get bored pretty soon, due to the lack of techniques scratch

It was never intended to be a weekly class or something you could do Mondays and Fridays. It is what it is because it was born out of certain requirements: Cops/security get little time to train and no money to finace that training. Many of them don't actually belive there is a need to train because they rarely get into scrapes, so enthusiasm sometimes wanes when people mention getting sweaty in the gym. Also, cops are loath to learn techniques, because they are concerned about having to explain them in court. Cops go to prison sometimes for their use of force. I know of two close collegues who have done time and it destroyed their lives and thelives of their families. I have been that man, stood in the dock with a small bag containing a toothbrush and a spare pair of undies and I can tell you it is not somewhere I wish to ever visit again. It destroys lives, families and health. People turn to drink, abuse their family members and commit suicide. That is the real threat.

So, the requirements are:
1) Something quick and easy to learn...
2) Which takes employees away from their place of work for as little time as possible and costs little.
3) Something that is dependable in a fight...
4) But defendable in the legal system, because it appears of a low injury potential, but is powerful enough that employees have confidence in it.
5) But something which LEO trainers and training designers are happy with because it complies with local procedures and policies (in the UK it's the ACPO manual of Self Defence and Arrest & Restraint.

Not a difficult set of paramiters eh? Like hell!

Even though three UK forces have taken on aspects of the close quarter firearms work, I know of one force who won't because they say it's not that much of a requirement. I gave them all the data on where and when cops are shot (within 10 feet and in the dark), but it just didn't fit into the training calendar. Sometimes things don't change until there is a fatality and then they clamour for someone who might have the solution.

Looking at the unarmed tactics in isolation, we don't compete at all. That's not to say that people don't get a damn good hard workout, because they do. I suspect that people find it different than most 'systems' but that's because it's aim is different - the most combat skills in the least time. To that end, a pair training together have to work in harmony to bring out the fighting will and the skill. The pad holder has to learn how to perform limited mini-scenarios quite quickly, because if he or she don't the only one suffering is his or her training partner.

We promote the open hand strike and hardly any others. That's not to say that we dissaprove of any other strikes, it's just that we have a limited time to instil the fighting spirit. Let's be honest though, how many times have people here been struck by an accidental elbow in training, which shook them. Many blows tend to just happen without too much training. It's the spirit which needs enhancing, especially in people who don't usually come into contact with violence.

I'm sorry that I rambled on for so long - the wife had started Hoovering and I thought that if I hid in here she'd forget about me Very Happy

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Re: The IPDTA

Post  ManchesterBudo on Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:32 am

Im looking forward to this week after reading that! bounce cheers
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Re: The IPDTA

Post  bukweetz on Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:29 am

mr budo,

i think you will enjoy the course, will be right up your street.
be afraid, be very afraid.
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Re: The IPDTA

Post  Coops on Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:30 am

You know something everyone, when I first saw that avatar of MB I thought he must be strange to actually screw his face up and advertise it. But when I met him I realised that he was quite nomal - he was actually born like that Very Happy

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Re: The IPDTA

Post  pete the feet on Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:16 pm

you dont have to be weird but it helps a lot afro
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Re: The IPDTA

Post  jimmyfatwing on Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:38 am

Hey Pete - welcome aboard buddy!
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Re: The IPDTA

Post  Coops on Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:58 am

Nice to see you Pete. Good to see you have the computer sorted out at last.

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