Officer Jim Wagner is being investigated by POW.net (an organisation who exposes military frauds) for falsifying documents and phony military and police claims. The guy who served as an Air Marshall who said he flew hundreds of counter-terrorist missions, was as it turns out, a radio operator for eight months in the U.S. Army (not the SF connections that he boasts) and a reserve police man jailer (not the SWAT veteran that he has confabulated). Jim Wagner is mostly known for his High Risk column in Black Belt magazine and adamantly claims he invented Reality Based Self Defence in 1997.

Check out these links...


http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,636.0.html


http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies1095.htm


Out

Joe

I never purchased anything off of him or looked closely at his stuff, but I must admit he had me fooled. Looks like my unspent money was well unspent...

And another one bites the dust....

Sad too... I am getting pretty sick and tired of all the BS that seems to surround and eventualy bury us up to out necks in the smelly crap.

the irony is its not even necessary to dress up in tactical gear or try and cultivate an image or lie about your cv to make money/ gain respect in this game

people just arent as unquestioningly respectful of authority in this day and age.They are interested in one thing:
Themselves!

...and what you as an instructor can do for them.

Fair play to them, why should anyone care what I or any other instructor used to be or used to do if the instructors system and abilities suck TODAY!

its good, its healthy, it creates competition and pushes everyones game up... thank god... martial arts and "rbsd" (thanks to "officer wagner" for the term) has been infected by sloth for too long, nowadays people can say "show me your stuff"... you have a camera, you have the internet... lets see it

Im off to tactically eat a kebab and fall asleep in my camo sleeping bag whilst nursing my replica glock and dreaming of being jason bourne, or maybe nursing jason bourne and dreaming of my glock?

the youtube generation just doesnt care about used to be or used to do... their mantra is "show me now and quickly before i get bored"

(by the way even if your 75 if youve surfed for martial arts porn on utube you are part of the "utube generation")

long may it reign

The real issue here is not the idea that JW actually showed up at a seminar with a SWAT suit on, but rather the point that by confabulating what he has done, he is stealing the valor of those who have served and died for their country in the line of duty. Dr. Gyi- the guy who claims to have been a Ghurka- is in the same boat.

His "Jack Bauer" description of his time as an Air Marshall is even more hysterical. I work in conjuction with the U.S. Air Marshalls almost everyday and let me tell you, after 6-months of service these guys are ready for a rubber room due to the shear boredom- no wonder JW only did 6-months of counter-terrorist missions.

I just want to add that I am not saying that JW doesn't have anything to offer as far as his course goes. I don't have any first hand knowledge of his stuff past seeing one of his Budo videos, but I have met people that enjoyed his seminars. Does his stuff suck? I have no idea, but again that is not the issue here.

Out

Joe

I remember saying something about this on another thread in this forum. (too lazy to search).

By that reckoning I did over 5000 missions for the UK MoD. (and in fact based on that logic, most of mine where far more 'dangerous')

Can I now wear my Darth Vader helmet with pride?

I like Joe and Rich's logic here.

I have to say though that there a lot of keyboard warrior types trying to 'out' charlatans that make a bloody nuisance of themselves. All in the service of making a 'name' for themselves.

A friend of mine was sent a very nasty bout of correspondence from one of these on the other side of the world DEMANDING that he provide paperwork evidence that he'd had the military service he claimed (which is completely bona fide). This was not a polite request for information. It was a diatribe of abuse. The guy backed down pretty quick and apologised, but that's hardly the point.

So debunking myths is great, but I'm vary wary of some of the reasons that people that do it have.

Just my 0.02p worth.

Dik x

well Joe I think my point (blurry as it was !) was kind of that within the objectives of the students/clients training that:

if they dont really care that much about who you are or what you have done when they select you as an instructor are they really going to care that much after the fact if your stuff is still good?

if I found out tomorrow that Bob wasnt in the SAS would it alter the quality of his training?

another valid question on this topic is:
do people flock in droves to Bobs door because he is ex SAS?

wouldnt the sheen wear off if his material was crap?

what Im saying is Joe is... should we REALLY care if he has lied?

I think it would only be relevant to the extent that we can prove he is getting contracts and students based on these lies... and that he wasnt doing his job which is, as I see it, teaching people to fight better.

My thoughts on Jim Wanger:

-never seen his stuff so cant say whether it falls within the definition of a good way of training people to fight better

-he is a bit of a tool because he tells people I shouldnt be training people how to fight because Ive never been a police officer

-he is a bit of a tool because at the beginning of a self defense dvd he pops up on screen in full tactical gear with a helmet and a machine gun... necessary? silly

-he is a bit of a tool because some of his material has racist overtones... yes the people who allegedly were responsible for 9/11 have more melanin in there skin than a caucasian, does your training manual have to show techniques being performed on brown people???

I have no interest in the guy or his work, he disqualified himself for me years ago with the dressup routine, well before the disparaging commments were made about my lack of "tactical experience"

pah! tactical experience? ive punched loads of people outside chip shops... whats he on about?

Joe I can see where you are coming from but it would be disingenuous of me to nod sagely and hurumph about the terrible state of Jim Wangers lies when I know that countless others are telling far, far worse.

Big fat sweaty whoppers all in the hysterical rush to get to create an image that will lead to the gold/fame/respect and virgins at the end of the "RBSD" rainbow.

"Well done you are officially the HARDEST man in Reality... based self defence"

Wanger may be naughty, but so are many, many others.

(naughty in the UK sense- Im not implying he wears that gear in the bedroom)

SP, rbsd, fighting with streets, its all waking up to itself at the mo'

Happy Days

I find it weird when people get worked up what other people are doing. I don't care if Jim 'what's his face' has lied about his background. I wouldn't/haven't have bought his stuff because he was a "SWAT" dude or whatever.

I judge people purely by their performance in terms of teaching, not because of their marketing hype.

It always puzzles me why some people who want to sell RBSD training make up stories about their pasts in some SF/ninja death squad or whatever when surely a past of chinning people outside chippies on a friday night is more relevant anyway.

One question tho', is the organisation which outed his lies to be trusted

I don't know Jim Wagner, Tim Larken, Dan Webre, Akida Kim, or for that matter, anyone that gets the colo-rectal exam over there at Bullshido.com. I think the investigators over there show more fervor in uncovering fibs than Simon Wiesenthal showed in digging up Nazi war criminals. I'm not sure there's too many in the industry that would get a clean bill of health from those folks. I think that B.S. is absolutely rampant in this industry and probably always has been. I say, don't let it keep you up at night and take the more far fetched stories with a bit of salt.

Edited.

Question not allowed.

Hi Rich

What I’m saying is Joe is... should we REALLY care if he has lied?

Yes, we should. He is advertising his services under false pretenses. People are paying him based on his so-called SWAT background and his confabulated SF background in South America. If he lied on his application form to serve as an Air Marshall about his military background, he would have lost his clearance and his job. The truth is that he served eight months in the Army as a radio operator and was a police reserve, much like a special constable over here. As I have said before about guys like Tim Larkin, why not just say what you have done. I can tell you that if people found out that Bob wasn’t former SAS, it would definitely have an effect on him, for sure. Imagine if Hock was never a full time police officer. Do you think that would go down well with all the agencies that he teaches worldwide?

As far as wearing tactical gear on DVDs? I am all for it if it has a context. If you are teaching to a LEO, military, security professionals, etc. I see nothing wrong with demonstrating material wearing gear as those operators would have to do it in. You yourself were wearing cammos and military boots in Bob’s SAS DVDs. All within the context of the course is good enough for me. But, when people start to wear Berets, uniforms with insignia and dressing up in official police uniforms when you are retired- that my friend in the U.S. is a felony. That is why POW.net is investigating JW along with allegations of falsifying documents that he is putting on his website.

If I found out tomorrow that Bob wasn’t in the SAS would it alter the quality of his training?

No but it would alter the quality of him as a trustworthy person. What would people think of Nick Hughes if they found out that he never served in the FFL after releasing an entire DVD series claiming that he has? The same applies to me- I have released a DVD series based on my background as a security contractor. If it was BS, it would affect my credibility. The same goes for anybody- Mick Coup help me out here!

Rich in closing I know there are many BS artists out there and it will always be that way unfortunately. I have no agenda here other than bringing this news to people’s attention, so they can make up their own mind on whether or not they should invest in this guys lies. Some here may be aware of the infamous Dr. Gyi who claims he was a Ghurka in WW2, then in Viet Nam working for the CIA and couldn’t resist pinning a General’s star on himself when he had the entire support of the Inosanto clan. JKD Concepts people can’t believe that Dan would fall for such lies, but guess the news? He did! And by investing years worth into those lies, he chooses to support a guy who may go to jail for his lies. People say it’s a funny old world, but really it’s just politics.

Out

Joe

I did ask Bob to grow his tache back and we did wear camos and have guns lying around in the background... we didnt not step on screen with helmets and guns for an unarmed comabt dvd... there are "props" and there are "crutches"! But I take your point...

Yes, perhaps we should take it more seriously but I tend to adopt more of the attitude that Rusty does- take with pinch o' salt, lose no sleep... Roadkill, can u make me shinier please mate? Im looking distinctly jaded -loL!

If he has committed a felony by misrepresenting himself well then... tut tut... as far as I have been told he WAS in the army, he WAS in the police and he WAS in SWAT... I dont know him and I dont really want to but I have to say the source is credible in these things and also has no vested interest.

Bloody Nuisance, you have tried this on me before, here is my answer:

suck my plums, you anonymous poo stirrer, and have the decency to pull me off while your at it...

"Oh Agent Starling do you really think you can dissect me with that blunt little tool?"

naughty sausage, get back in the cage or ill make you wear the mask again

come on back to the serious issue of people who fabricated their credentials... Ive had 500 street fights, any takers on 5? going onece, going twice