Head Contact Considerations

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Hi Everyone,
I recently spoke with a good friend of mine from Canada, Stan Peterec (one of THE toughest men, in every sense of the word, that I've ever befriended) who related to me that a close doctor friend of his attended a medical conference for boxing in Las Vegas sometime last year in order to reform/revise pro boxing standards/procedures. Anyway, one of the presentations addressed head contact/brain damage issues. Stan's friend told him that numerous studies were presented which unequivocally showed that risks for brain damage from head contact significantly increases at around 40 years of age and on. The primary reason delineated was that the fluid surrounding the brain (which acts as a shock-absorbing buffer among other things) diminishes significantly from around 40 years of age on. This thinning out of brain fluid makes a 40-or-more year old person much more susceptible to brain damage for a number of reasons, the most basic being that with less fluid to absorb shock, the brain "slams" into the inner walls of the skull with much more impact when the head is struck thus causing more real and potential damage.

Even before this discussion with Stan, this topic has always been a big concern of mine over the years. It was at the urging of my mentor Geoff Thompson some years back along with the fact that at around 38/39 years old, my capacity to take/withstand head shots diminished to a noticable degree. While I was blessed with "tough whiskers" and never was KO'd, I heeded Geoff and my body's warning signs to reduce my hardcore training habits.

Now, while I don't regret all the all-out, full-contact training fights I've had over the years (well, maybe just a little bit), if I were to do it all over again, unless I was a professional MMA fighter, which I never was, I would reduce the number of full-contact fights I engaged in. In evaluating myself and many others over the years, along with recognizing the realities of street combat, I feel that most people would sufficiently benefit from engaging in small, sporadic amounts of fully-resistive, equally-capable full-contact engagements to enhance their physical self-defense/self-protection skills. I believe that engaging beyond what is "necessary" in this regard, for most people, would have more of an adverse effect than a beneficial one for the reason expressed above. After having a few full-contact symmetrical battles under your belt and taking in the "benefits" of those experiences, I believe all-out, full-bore asymmetrical training is more practical (in many ways) for physical self-defense/self-protection purposes.

The point to all this is not for any of you to set this 40-year old mark as the barometer for when to stop engaging in full-contact fights. Each one of us has a unique brain physiology with genetic predispositions which, unless you undergo intensive testing, you would not know about. My point is for those who train like I did, constantly re-evaluate your reasons and goals for doing so. There's more to life than being able to kick ass.

While there is much to gain from all-out, full-contact training fights, when the risks outweigh the rewards, it's time to stop, re-assess and train in other, more prudent ways. There comes a time with each and every one of us when putting the blade through the forge no longer sharpens the blade but dulls it and makes it brittle. Health, longevity, and quality of life appeal to me, not only for my sake but for my wife and children; brain damage does not...

Take care all and God bless.

Best Regards,
Lito

Richard Grannon · Number of posts: 1222 Registration date: 2006-08-16

great post mate

their was a thread a while ago about different recommended helmets? well I got the Joe Hubbard one and it is effing awesome, but I keep forgetting to post and recommend it.
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Rusty Shackleford · Number of posts: 472 Registration date: 2006-09-04

Richard,

Can you elaborate some on Joe Hubbard's helmets, maybe provide a link or describe it. I'm not familiar with it.

thanks mate

Brian S · Subject: Re: Head Contact Considerations Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:02 pm

Rusty Shackleford · Number of posts: 472 Registration date: 2006-09-04

Thanks Brian,

Yes, very much like Dimitri's helmet. Richard's helmet has been unavailable for some time now. I wonder what's up with that. Maybe a liability issue has raised it's ugly head.

Nick Hughes · Subject: Re: Head Contact Considerations Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:38 pm

Lito,

Good point mate. I read a great article in Australia's only martial arts mag back in the seventies called "fighting arts" that was about dementia pugilistica (punch drunkedness). They had a scary picture of a boxer's brain sitting in a jar of formaldehyde (sp?) which had a black crust - scablike - around the entire thing. It was from the years of battering inside the cranial cavity.

I always kept that in mind which is why I can count on ten fingers the amount of times I've put gloves on and gone all out with someone. A couple of boxing fights (1 pro), a couple of kick boxing matches and a few hard core training sessions. I might have done more but for that article and the fact I HATE getting hit. Smile

The other one I've picked up of late is that choking and strangulation techniques on people over forty can be a huge problem as well. The tradition in Judo when you got your black belt was to choke each other out (and revive with Katsu if necessary) but we were all twenty year olds. It's something I've had to point out at seminars to the older guys who attend and, if memory serves, it has to do with hardening of the arteries as we age and the risk of arterial plaque breaking free and causing a fatal blockage.

Nick
Aging (but not gracefully)

Giles · Number of posts: 51 Registration date: 2006-09-10

Hi Brian and Rich,

On Joe's site he says his headgear is able to take "full-blown shots with fists, sticks...". In your experience can they, or the Bytomic ones, take this kind of impact in a symmetrical scenario without severe damage to the person wearing it?

Thanks - Giles

Richard Grannon · Number of posts: 1222 Registration date: 2006-08-16

they can to the bits where they are covered
but i did a session with ed baker (off this forum) over xmas and dropped a knee onto the top of his head were there is no covering and he went a bit glassy eyed

there is no head gear that i know of that will allow you to go full on with no risk, but you can simulate a few good tonks with a bit of restraint and then let rip on the pads

i was impressed with the damage they could take to the front and side of the plastic visor brian mentioned
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Ade · Subject: Re: Head Contact Considerations Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:48 pm

Great post Lito,

I have to say,at 41,i cannot take headshots at all well anymore.The blurred vision and blinding headaches come all too easily these days.
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Ian S · Subject: Re: Head Contact Considerations Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:23 am

Great article, Lito. At 37 I can definitely feel it if I've been hit in the head too often. Sad

After 3 sessions of milling in 2 months earlier this year I was almost ready to swear off training entirely...

I have one of those Bytomic headguards, and it's definitely better than nothing, but I was feeling distinctly headachey and light-headed after a few hours of each day's training at the SouthNarc seminar in Chester last year. That wasn't, theoretically, with full-contact shots, either -- just lots of shots.

On the other hand, 3mm of steel plate helmet over an inch or so of wool felt padding and 4 layers of cotton arming cap means I can take full-contact sword blows to the head with less pain & ill-effects than slaps etc. in the Bytomic helmet... the steel outside isn't very forgiving if you're hitting it with your hands though. I wonder if that approach -- very rigid, one-piece outer shell, with plenty of padding -- might be better than the whole thing being soft. Incidentally, the best padding I've seen used on re-enactment helmets is horsehair -- a few people I train with got some ex-RAF horsehair padding that had been used to pad kit that was intended to be chucked out of planes, & you pretty much can't feel anything wearing the helmets padded with it.

Brian S · Subject: Re: Head Contact Considerations Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:26 pm

Itsthe bouncing around of the head that causes the damage. Even the massively padded and structurally suppoerted Bulletman helmets can't give total protection against that. So any smaller helmet, Joes, Richards, Bytomics or whatever, are never going to give you that much.

I occasionally go all out with the helmet on, but only for 10-15 seconds. That not only reduces the cumulative effect of blows, it also more accurately mirrors the type of all in mayhem that a real fight is going to be.

Re Senshido's helmets, I'm not 100% sure why they have been stopped. I think one of the staff moved on, and she was the person who put them together. Maybe that's it?

As for the "able to take full blown shots" type views from anyone....... Nah. Maybe the helmet can! But the head inside it can't.
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Richard Grannon · Number of posts: 1222 Registration date: 2006-08-16

PullupPastor · Number of posts: 1932 Registration date: 2006-08-15

Ta for that Lito....

One has only to look at Muhammed Ali to see the perils - they say his affliction isnt boxing related - that i dont believe....
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Guest

Regarding the ‘sense’ and science in taking head shots…

It’s plainly obvious to everyone the possible damage one may do if continuously getting walloped on the head, only a fool would think otherwise. However, ‘we’ are all martial artists/self-defence practitioners, and some of us wish to train to the limit of reality within a controlled environment, this obviously includes contact to the head, body, joint manipulation etc. etc.

GOOD, HARD, REALISTIC, TRAINING can be practiced with a little bit of knowledge and some common sense. It doesn’t matter if the person(s) is 16 or 60 – if the exercise is UNDERSTOOD then an appropriate amount of contact to get the receiver to experience STRESS, DURESS, PRESSURE etc. albeit limited, has to be a useful exercise.

We did a lot of this type of exercise on a Friday night with Gavin
Mulholland (Daigaku) instructing when I was back in blighty. Gloved up, sometimes full(ish)-on, sometimes light. Gavin is mid 40’s (sorry Pal) and I’m late 40’s. On every occasion we paired up to practice a two man drill (with head guards) WE WERE BOTH AWARE OF THE AMOUNT OF CONTACT. In fact, sometimes it was a larf to catch a shot when unprepared. Point being, it was all done in safe, controlled, environment and the reality of controlled contact made the exercise valid as a learning tool, without contact almost any exercise is futile.

The simple truth is there is always a risk, same for any contact sport, or extreme sport. Quoting facts and figures from scientific resources on something which is blatantly obvious is meaningless. Either you are a ‘reality’ M.artist or not. Simple.

Training should always be safe, and, within the boundaries/capabilities of the students – any instructor worth their salt would know this.

John Skillen · Subject: Re: Head Contact Considerations Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:27 pm

I shall repeat what I said a couple of years ago and a couple of people commented negatively towards it! " you don't need to spar to be able to practise and perform for real good quality self protection or self defence." reason; we do the hitting, we don't take the hits!! Cool

great post regarding taking too many head shots. Stay young into old age.
John